Post #156,522
5/23/04 7:37:49 PM
5/23/04 7:51:15 PM
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Another mini-crisis brewing related to SCO case & Linux
For those not aware, a man named Ken Brown is about to publish a book that tries to claim that Linus didn't write Linux kernel. Despite already being debunked before publication, it seems Brown will proceed. The messages coming through re the book is that it is funded by an 'unknown' organisation who Brown refuses to identify. Ken Brown is President of the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution.
[link|http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040520021144762|http://www.groklaw.n...20040520021144762]
EXTRACT >>>> Andrew S. Tanenbaum, the author of MINIX, has issued a statement strongly contradicting ADTI's Ken Brown, who claimed this week that after numerous interviews, including one with Tanenbaum, that Linus was probably not the author of Linux and that Linux was a derivative of UNIX and MINIX. Tanenbaum, while obviously still not a fan of Linux or Linus all these years later, nevertheless confirms that Linus wrote Linux and says no MINIX code was improperly used by him.
He gives details of the interview Brown did with him, questions Brown's knowledge, motives and credentials, and says he thinks Brown's problem is that he simply can't believe one man could write an operating system by himself: <<<<
*************************************************** A later link to a full copy of Tanenbaum's response.
[link|http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040522014416143|http://www.groklaw.n...20040522014416143]
EXTRACT >>>> On 20 May 2004, I posted a statement refuting the claim of Ken Brown, President of the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, that Linus Torvalds didn't write Linux. My statement was mentioned on Slashdot, Groklaw, and many other Internet news sites. This attention resulted in over 150,000 requests to our server in less than a day, which is still standing despite yesterday being a national holiday with no one there to stand next to it saying "You can do it. You can do it." Kudos to Sun Microsystems and the folks who built Apache. My statement was mirrored all over the Internet, so the number of true hits to it is probably a substantial multiple of that. There were also quite a few comments at Slashdot, Groklaw, and other sites, many of them about me. I had never engaged in remote multishrink psychoanalysis on this scale before, so it was a fascinating experience.
The Brown Book
I got an advance copy of Ken Brown's book. I think it is still under embargo, so I won't comment on it. Although I am not an investigative reporter, even I know it is unethical to discuss publications still under embargo. Some of us take ethics more seriously than others. So I won't even reveal the title. Let's call it The Brown Book. There is some precedent for nicknaming books after colors: The International Standard for the CD-ROM (IS 10149) is usually called The Red Book.
Suffice it to say, there is a great deal to criticize in the book. I am sure that will happen when it is published. I may even help out. <<<<
**********************************************************8 #2 added ...
Here is another extract from the top link, PJ (Groklaw) posted a portion of an interview with Brown that gives us an idea of what he is about ...
EXTRACT #2 from Link #1 >>>> "'What I'm against is hybrid code, which is what is causing this criminal activity,' Brown told LinuxInsider. By 'hybrid,' Brown means code that has both commercial and proprietary roots. 'That hybrid genesis is causing people who work for major corporations to borrow and steal code . . . and to have to contribute to open-source code,' he said. 'It started out academically and evolved to something commercial. That's what's caused the problem. . . . "'I want all of your readers to ask themselves, in the history of computing, has anyone else ever written an operating system who never was a licensee, didn't have operating system experience, and didn't have the source code? How did he develop so much code in just six months? Everyone else has taken years to develop operating systems.... Linus perpetuated the lie [that he is the inventor of the Linux kernel], and I have a problem with this smarmy attitude.'" <<<<
Doug M
_________________________________________________________
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!".
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Edited by dmarker
May 23, 2004, 07:51:15 PM EDT
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Post #156,527
5/23/04 8:13:28 PM
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IANAL, but without substantial proof, wouldn't that be libel
or slander?
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Post #156,530
5/23/04 9:44:18 PM
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That is exactly what I am thinking.
It is interesting to note from this discussion & several follow-on posts on Groklaw, that even a recognised authority on the history of Unix (Peter Salus) is getting involved on the side of Linux. Peter is active right at the moment in posting in Groklaw.
Here are a couple more extracts from Tanenbaums main post. 1st mentions how Brown had never even heard of Salus or his book. 2nd is the lead-in from Tanenbaums post, to the start of the Brown interview.
The more I read the information the nastier Brown's book and intentions become. It seems that even if Brown is shot down in 'flames' he will have done the damage certain parties are looking to inflict.
Pamela Jones (Groklaw) believes this is all a lead-in to a future attack by 'Microsoft' on software copyright laws, designed to limit freedom to publish open source.
This is looking a bit bad at the moment.
Doug Marker
EXTRACT from Tanenbaum re start of being interviewed by Brown ... EXTRACT >>>> He was extremely evasive about why he was there and who was funding him. He just kept saying he was just writing a book about the history of UNIX. I asked him what he thought of Peter Salus' book, A Quarter Century of UNIX. He'd never heard of it! I mean, if you are writing a book on the history of UNIX and flying 3000 miles to interview some guy about the subject, wouldn't it make sense to at least go to amazon.com and type "history unix" in the search box, in which case Salus' book is the first hit? For $28 (and free shipping if you play your cards right) you could learn an awful lot about the material and not get any jet lag. As I soon learned, Brown is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I was already suspicious. As a long-time author, I know it makes sense to at least be aware of what the competition is. He didn't bother. <<<<
************************************************************************
another EXTRACT from Groklaw's link of Saturday to Tanenbaum's web post ... EXTRACT >>>>
Brown's Motivation
What prompted me to write this note today is an email I got yesterday. Actually, I got quite a few :-) , most of them thanking me for the historical material. One of yesterday's emails was from Linus, in response to an email from me apologizing for not letting him see my statement in advance. As a matter of courtesy, I did try but I was using his old transmeta.com address and didn't know his new one until I got a very kind email from Linus' father, a Finnish journalist.
In his email, Linus said that Brown never contacted him. No email, no phone call, no personal interview. Nothing. Considering the fact that Brown was writing an explosive book in which he accused Linus of not being the author of Linux, you would think a serious author would at least confront the subject with the accusation and give him a chance to respond. What kind of a reporter talks to people on the periphery of the subject but fails to talk to the main player?
Why did Brown fly all the way to Europe to interview me and (and according to an email I got from his seat-mate on the plane) one other person in Scandinavia, at considerable expense, and not at least call Linus? Even if he made a really bad choice of phone company, how much could that cost? Maybe a dollar? I call the U.S. all the time from Amsterdam. It is less than 5 cents a minute. How much could it cost to call California from D.C.?
From reading all the comments posted yesterday, I am now beginning to get the picture. Apparently a lot of people (still) think that I 'hate' Linus for stealing all my glory (see below for more on this). I didn't realize this view was so widespread. I now suspect that Brown believed this, too, and thought that I would be happy to dump all over Linus to get 'revenge.' By flying to Amsterdam he thought he could dig up dirt on Linus and get me to speak evil of him. He thought I would back up his crazy claim that Linus stole Linux from me. Brown was wrong on two counts. First, I bear no 'grudge' against Linus at all. He wrote Linux himself and deserves the credit. Second, I am really not a mean person. Even if I were still angry with him after all these years, I wouldn't choose some sleazy author with a hidden agenda as my vehicle. My home page gets 2500 hits a week. If I had something to say, I could put it there.
When The Brown Book comes out, there will no doubt be a lot of publicity in the mainstream media. Any of you with contacts in the media are actively encouraged to point reporters to this page and my original statement to provide some balance. I really think Brown's motivation should come under scrutiny. I don't believe for a nanosecond that Brown was trying to do a legitimate study of IP and open source or anything like that. I think he was trying to make the case the people funding him (which he refused to disclose to me despite my asking point blank) wanted to have made. Having an institution with an illustrious-sounding name make the case looks better than having an interested party make the case. <<<<
_________________________________________________________
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!".
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
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Post #156,550
5/24/04 1:34:08 AM
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Libel.
Slander is spoken word.
Peter [link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #156,558
5/24/04 2:59:37 AM
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Brown has done both !!!
So he stacks up as a slanderous, libelous, lying, coniving, corrupt, devious, pile of 'Brown' stuff, other than that, his dog thinks he is ok :-)
Doug M
_________________________________________________________
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!".
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
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Post #156,561
5/24/04 6:33:10 AM
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Where's the spoken word?
And remember, it's only libel if it isn't true.
I can't speak to the law in the US, but here in the UK, the burden of proof is upon the accused libeller.
Aside::Pet_Peeve0027->print(); "Extra ! marks only serve to remove points from your perceived IQ"
Peter [link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #156,564
5/24/04 7:00:48 AM
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Re: Where's the spoken word?
The interviews that Brown did - go read em!!!
Cheers
Doug (Groklaw links I provided)
_________________________________________________________
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!".
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
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Post #156,565
5/24/04 7:12:59 AM
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They're published.
Ergo they're libellous (allegedly) instead of slanderous (allegedly).
Peter [link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #156,568
5/24/04 7:20:17 AM
5/24/04 7:22:19 AM
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Isn't this a catch-22
Brown slanders Linus verbally to someone who then writes what Brown said.
At what point does the slander turn into libel.
I though libel only happens when the person writes something about someone else. If they speak it then someone else reports it it is still slander.
I think there is even more material at Groklaw put there a few hours ago. Also Brown did a lengthy interview with LinuxInsider where he repeats his claims in regard to Linux. There is extensive also misquoting of Tanenbaum and others.
Cheers - Doug
_________________________________________________________
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!".
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Edited by dmarker
May 24, 2004, 07:22:19 AM EDT
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Post #156,569
5/24/04 7:22:09 AM
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Probably.
Personally, I'm in the "ignore this fuckwit" camp, and really can't get very excited about this case :)
Peter [link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #156,572
5/24/04 7:32:36 AM
5/24/04 8:18:17 AM
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The latest material from Groklaw + a CNET news item
[link|http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040523172344599|http://www.groklaw.n...20040523172344599]
In this particular example, PJ is quoting from an interview (IIRC) that Brown gave.
Also here is a news item on this 'Brown' topic. It accentuates the type of harm Brown & his ilk can do ...
[link|http://news.com.com/2102-7344_3-5216651.html?tag=st.util.print|http://news.com.com/...tag=st.util.print]
EXTRACT >>>> Is Torvalds really the father of Linux?
By Stephen Shankland Staff Writer, CNET News.com
It's hard to imagine that Linus Torvalds could have launched Linux without directly using earlier operating system work, according to a report that has become controversial even before its scheduled publication Thursday. The 92-page report, from a 14-person Washington, D.C., think tank called the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, suggests more Linux credit should go to Minix. A Unix clone, Minix was designed by Andrew Tanenbaum to help him teach operating systems and software at Vrije University in Amsterdam. Torvalds used Minix before he embarked on Linux development in 1991.
In an e-mail interview, Torvalds strongly disputed the study's conclusions. And Tanenbaum himself has harshly criticized the study.
A new report suggests more credit for creating the Linux operating system should go to Unix clone Minix, rather than to Linus Torvalds. Bottom line: The study comes not long after several others unflattering to Linux and in the midst of a legal attack on Linux by the SCO Group. <<<<
This kind of controvesy no matter what the truth is, just isn't good.
Doug
_________________________________________________________
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!".
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Edited by dmarker
May 24, 2004, 08:18:17 AM EDT
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Post #156,656
5/24/04 2:55:18 PM
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I don't buy that logic
The articles are written published. But they aren't written and published by Brown. Brown's action therefore remains slander. It would be libel if Brown wrote down his own words and published them.
The person publishing the interview has committed neither slander or libel since they published something completely true, they claim that Brown said X and Brown really did say X.
IANAL, but if the legal system disagrees with that reasoning, then I'll have to reset my expectations of how arbitrarily stupid their distinctions are. (The distinction between libel and slander is already pretty damned arbitrary to me...)
Cheers, Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
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Post #156,532
5/23/04 9:56:24 PM
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I have a dressing down:
[link|http://sourcefrog.net/weblog/issues/adti|Martin Pool goes on the offensive]
There many other sources of dressing down of his book.
IBM wil subpeona the author and order him to testify the true sponsor.
I call that book the "Brown Book" similar to "Redbook Audio" etc... except the brown does't spec a standard... it smells of crap and looks like it.
This is just another bump, Microsoft is indeed going to continue to fund these things.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute. Set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
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