IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 1 active user | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Nick P on Gnome 2.6 and "Sane Defaults"
[link|http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/software/story/0,10801,92934,00.html|Post Title says it all]

I am getting kinda sick and tired of GNOME locking me out of more and more things.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

Give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute.
Set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
New Nautilus is killing Gnome
I think Nautilus is slowly killing Gnome. Nautilus incorporates many of the 'anti-features' of Windows into Gnome. Awkward menu layouts, stupid defaults, clumsy features, inexplicable bugs, insane integration, nearly impossible to change settings; these are not features Gnome needs.

When I first really started using Linux, I compared Gnome and KDE and went with Gnome. This was despite KDE being more complete and stable at the time. This was because Gnome seemed more interested in building a powerful, useful desktop and environment. KDE seemed intent on building a Windows clone desktop.

But with the latest releases, they are mucking it up bad.

Jay
New He's always hated GNOME.
Personally, I love the new spatial Nautilus and find that GNOME 2.6 is, basically, teh roxxor. It's fast, stable and stays out of my face. However, you can just go to Applications->Browse Filesystem and presto! It's just like it always used to be!

And his whining about "Choice" is bollocks, too. You can choose NOT to use it. If it's options yer after, go play with KDE. Run GNOME 1.4. Run FluxBox. Run WindowMaker. Run XFCE. Run Windows, for crying out loud.

Nick's diatribe is typical of those who think that Free Software has some kind of responsibility to be all things to all people. The GNOME developers made some design decisions, and someone doesn't like them. Film at 11.

I hope that if he's this bothered about it, he'll be filing usability bugs against Nautilus. You too, Greg.

Edit: Note to self. Don't click "Save without preview" before comment is ready.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
Expand Edited by pwhysall May 11, 2004, 12:11:13 AM EDT
New I have been reporting usability bugs straight to Jeff Waugh
More a private discussion of personal preferences and likes and dislikes.

Especially about the broken interface of Nautilus with my cdrecorder.

Course that could be atrributed to 2.6.5 and libscg being bugy as well. Have not discovered which of 5 pieces that is causing my difficulty.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

Give a man a match, he'll be warm for a minute.
Set him on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life!
Expand Edited by folkert May 11, 2004, 07:35:57 AM EDT
New I still want to know why Gnome integration caused my mess
My experience described at [link|http://use.perl.org/~btilly/journal/18678|http://use.perl.org/...lly/journal/18678] was not very fun. I still don't know why fvwm is now catching regular errors looking like, (galeon-bin:561): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: file gobject.c: line 1319 (g_object_ref): assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed - but that error says bad things about someone's software quality.

I can't be the only person who likes simplicity and reliability? Apparently people like me just don't have an itch to scratch when it comes to the desktop world, and so don't get heard. :-(

Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New You want simplicity and reliability?
You want [link|http://www.xfce.org/index.php?lang=en|XFCE].
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Let the WM/DE flame wars commence!
XFCE is shitslow bloatware![0]

[0] This is a flame. It may or may not be representative of my opinion, or reality.

Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Heh.
I'm perfectly willing to accept that you don't like it. But even you would be hard pressed to call it bloatware. Its entire footprint is probably smaller than that pig of a glorified Windows Explorer copy, Nautilus.

And yes...I realize it was a flame, ya puke! ;-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Hook, line, sinker and copy of Angling Times :-D
[0]

[0]Always read the footnotes.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Just doin my part.
Sort of like shooting the President of Bosnia ;-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Gnome is trying to clone Mac OS Classic
Note the spatial, finder style nautilus, the instant apply dialogs, Cancel/OK order buttons, bar across top with app menu on left and clock and task menu on right. I suspect that they've found it is too hard to design a UI by committee/mailing-list, so they've gone with the "If Apple did it, it must be right because they had all kinds of smart people with degrees and stuff do studies to prove why the way they did things is best" approach.

I also think Nick makes a good point with this:

By the time a software project gets to Version 2.6, a user might reasonably expect that he wouldn't have to adapt to yet another paradigm shift in basic user-interface design, especially when it comes to something as fundamental as how you navigate through desktop folders. Yet this is precisely what users will have to relearn with this latest version of GNOME.


I kind of like where Gnome has been/is going. But they're going to have to have to pick a UI paradigm and stick with it. I don't think companies looking to install thousands of Linux desktops are going to want the UI reinvented every 6 months to a year.



--
Chris Altmann
New "Yet Another"
What are the other paradigm shifts that GNOME's inflicted on its users?

I can't actually think of any. Instant apply has been around for yonks (and I like it!).


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Re: "Yet Another"
It started as a Windows/KDE clone, gained lots of tweaker options, lost most of those options, switched window managers, went from OK/Cancel and apply on OK to Cancel/OK and instant apply, switched from GMC to Nautilus, Nautilus switched from a integrated document/web/directory browser to just directories and some documents to spatial folders. The file manager gained then lost a 3 level menu system (basic/intermediate/advanced). The application menu was in the lower left like Windows, now it is in the upper left on a menu bar (unless you use Gnome from a distro, in which case it is either still in the lower left, or is both). The home directory either was or wasnt the desktop and the dekstop folder either was or wasn't hidden.

Things have mostly calmed down now, but I think alot of early adopters got burned along the way.

I did mention that I actually like the new Gnome didn't I?

PS: Note that none of the above is in any particular order.

--
Chris Altmann
New I'm not being deliberately awkward, honest:
It started as a Windows/KDE clone

I've been using GNOME since it was basically GTK, the panel and Enlightenment. It was many things in those days (unstable being the thing it was most of all), but it never struck me as being a Windows or KDE clone. Matter of opinion, I spose.
gained lots of tweaker options, lost most of those options

To be fair, many of these options haven't gone away; they're just hiding in the GConf database.
switched window managers

Three times. Enlightenment is far too large to use as a default WM. It has DE aspirations of its own, is developed at a pace best described as glacial, and, is frankly, as user-friendly as a cornered rattlesnake on speed. Sawfish suffered from the KDE disease (preferences for all sorts of silliness) and was a victim of the move to a simpler interface that came with GNOME 2. I approve of this; I am very well aware that a number of power users are not. Metacity is small, light, fast and simple. Note that you don't HAVE to use Metacity; you can use any reasonably ICCCM-compliant WM that supports the GNOME hints.
went from OK/Cancel and apply on OK to Cancel/OK and instant apply

You'll not often see "OK/Cancel" in a GNOME dialogue box these days; the HIG recommends that developers[0] use verbs on their buttons. This is a massive usability win. I love instant apply. Windows is now a minority in my household on this score, as Mac OS X has instant apply, too. [Aside: The Apply button as seen on Windows is a bit of a UI nonsense if the Cancel button doesn't grey out when you click Apply; even if you've Applied your changes, the Cancel button should still Cancel them, right? Wrong. You close the dialogue box but still have applied changes even though you've clicked Cancel, which really should have changed to Close. Usability bug. Endemic on the Win32 platform, unfortunately.]
switched from GMC to Nautilus

I always hated GMC, and pined for a decent replacement. Initially, Nautilus wasn't it, but it's damn good these days. The only feature that's been lost is that once upon a time, you used to be able to hold down ALT, click files of type, say, JPEG images, and it'd select all the files of that type in the directory. Neat. However, I'm not entirely sure this wasn't a figment of my imagination.
Nautilus switched from a integrated document/web/directory browser to just directories and some documents to spatial folders

Nautilus still does that stuff. As noted above, the spatial folders thing Works For Me.[1]
The file manager gained then lost a 3 level menu system (basic/intermediate/advanced)

I'm glad this went. I spent far too much time playing "hunt the sodding option". As did many people.
The application menu was in the lower left like Windows, now it is in the upper left on a menu bar (unless you use Gnome from a distro, in which case it is either still in the lower left, or is both)

It's where you want it to be, IOW :-)
The home directory either was or wasnt the desktop and the dekstop folder either was or wasn't hidden.

As far as I'm aware, there has never been a default to make the home directory the desktop. You've been able to do it for ages, though.

[0] ...developers! developers! (ahem)
[1] Works for my mum, too. She still says that her iMac running Mac OS 8.6 is the best computer she's ever had. I intend to Steal it at some point, even if it is green.

Peter

[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
     Nick P on Gnome 2.6 and "Sane Defaults" - (folkert) - (13)
         Nautilus is killing Gnome - (JayMehaffey)
         He's always hated GNOME. - (pwhysall) - (1)
             I have been reporting usability bugs straight to Jeff Waugh - (folkert)
         I still want to know why Gnome integration caused my mess - (ben_tilly) - (5)
             You want simplicity and reliability? - (bepatient) - (4)
                 Let the WM/DE flame wars commence! - (pwhysall) - (3)
                     Heh. - (bepatient) - (2)
                         Hook, line, sinker and copy of Angling Times :-D - (pwhysall) - (1)
                             Just doin my part. - (bepatient)
         Gnome is trying to clone Mac OS Classic - (altmann) - (3)
             "Yet Another" - (pwhysall) - (2)
                 Re: "Yet Another" - (altmann) - (1)
                     I'm not being deliberately awkward, honest: - (pwhysall)

Time for a tasty, tangy treat!
61 ms