Re: Sun Tzu: Estimates

Post #15,365 by dmarker2 10/27/01 12:48:21 AM Reply	Re: Sun Tzu: Estimates My point was that Taliban moving troops into civillian areas is a survival 'tactic' (of course its deplorable - that is a 'moral' judgement) as a tactic, if it works then it is a sound survival tactic if it means their troops survive. Remember that from a tactical perspective the US can easly wipe out their forces if they are in the open. Remember to that they don't have a conventional standing army - just citizens with guns, some of whom are full time fighters vs part-time. Most of the Arabs ran away within days of the Sept 11th attack (there are numerous reports on that). Most volunteerrs ariving are Pashtuns from Pakistan. I am convinced that there is a substantial confusion between the morallity of actions & the tactical nature of the same actions. If we are talking morality we need to be clear thats what we are talking. I am sure we are in total agreement on the moral issue. "I do not see the Taliban having, or securing by its actions, moral influence." - I understand your point but surely we would need to ask Afghans this question, not us ??? - we can't be expected to see anything but immorality in their very existance so surely we are biased. Even the quote you use says ... "By moral influence, I mean that which causes the people to be in harmony with their leaders, so that they will accompany them in life and unto death without fear of mortal peril." - now if the Afghan citizens agree with you, then what you say is correct. Cheers Doug
Post #15,369 by addison 10/27/01 1:33:55 AM Reply	Re: Sun Tzu: Estimates Remember to that they don't have a conventional standing army - just citizens with guns, some of whom are full time fighters vs part-time. Most of the Arabs ran away within days of the Sept 11th attack (there are numerous reports on that). Most volunteerrs ariving are Pashtuns from Pakistan. Last I heard, they had 40-60k men opposing the Northern Alliance. That's not a bunch of guys on a weekend jaunt. They've got far more than just AKs. That's T-72s, heavy artillery, etc. That's a lot of logistical support required. Al' Queda's has been widely reported as being the tough, dedicated, well-trained core of the Taliban troops, and that was a large part of OBL's power base. Train them well, let them fight, get experience, etc. My point was that Taliban moving troops into civillian areas is a survival 'tactic' (of course its deplorable - that is a 'moral' judgement) as a tactic, if it works then it is a sound survival tactic if it means their troops survive. If - if they don't care about the civilians. Which I don't think that they do. So for your case to make sense, then they're not fighting for/defending the civilians. (what you're arguing they are/do, when they're proving otherwise) Addison
Post #15,406 by wharris2 10/27/01 8:25:29 AM Reply	Re: Sun Tzu: Estimates You're still debating this idiot? :=) (idiot = gentle term.) "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
Post #15,436 by Ashton 10/27/01 5:04:53 PM Reply	Ah.. the unbiased-idiot report: thanks for clarifying just Everything. Let me guess - you too only ever speak facts, so any counter to those ---> idiocy. (And naturally too - these are All of the 'facts' that are relevant. Because they are your-facts) Right? I think I understand ar least a pair of you only-the-Facts, Maam presenters a bit better, now. (Hey I thought that Facts like that were found only in the Religion arena of Certainty; now you say there are Political-Facts too?? How do You spel s a n c t i m o n y ?? A. 0.pin.ion n "1. a belief not based on absolute certainty or positive knowledge but on what seems true,valid, or probable to one's own mind; what one thinks; judgment." Emphasis added, for the humility-impaired and the ever-Certain amongst us. Next we can look up simplistic. Nahhhh. Never mind.
Post #15,438 by wharris2 10/27/01 5:18:12 PM Reply	Yes of course. I am Mr. Factoid, you didn't know that? Every thing I speak is as if it were from the lips of Mohammed or God, and we know they are both truth incarnate. "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth

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