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New Should we suspect a connection between anthrax and 9/11?
Hi,

Just some speculation here - I have no first-hand knowledge of what's known or not known about the anthrax cases and the 9/11 attacks.

Here's what I think is known so far:

1. The anthrax exposures have been small so far - the site in Florida and CBS in NYC (which IIRC they still don't know how it was spread), and the 3 letters (NBC, NY Post, Sen. Daschle). It seems to have been limited to 5 exposure events (with other exposures via the letters in the mail system, etc.).

2. Bin Laden has been accused of involvement in several incidents against the US which were usually of a much larger scale:

a. Bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. (Truck bomb).
b. Attack on US troops in Somalia. (Ambush, small arms.)
c. Bombings of US embassies in Africa (Truck bombs).
d. Bombing at WTC. (Truck bomb).
e. USS Cole bombing in Yemen. (Boat bomb).
f. 9/11 attacks on the Pentagon and the WTC. (Aircraft).
g. Attempted attacks on several aircraft from the Philippines and the Pope (thwarted).

There may be others in Europe and elsewhere that I haven't recalled.

3. There are rumors of contacts between bin Laden operatives and Iraqi agents before the 9/11 attacks.

4. There are statements attributed to bin Laden that he wants biological, chemical and nuclear weapons to use against the US.

5. There are many sources for anthrax bacteria, though US sources have become much more tightly controlled in the last few years. Many countries in the mid-east, Russia, and others are rumored to have anthrax weapons capabilities.

6. The anthrax used apparently wasn't extremely finely ground as one would expect for "weapons-grade" material. But it was processed finely enough to become airborne and spread in the Hart senate office building.

7. The handwriting and spelling on the 3 letters released yesterday looks and sounds strange. The envelopes used an embossed stamp so that the user wouldn't have to risk personal DNA getting under a postage stamp. It seems to use deliberately masked handwriting to me (that or someone with child-like writing techniques wrote the letter). I think the "Death to ..." statements could very well be an attempt at misdirection to the "Islamic" militants. The "9/11/01" dating of the letters makes me suspect it has US origin, as foreign states often use different dating conventions (day/mo/year or year/mo/day). But that could be intentional as well.

8. The NBC and NYPost letters were post-marked 9/18, IIRC, while the Senate letter was postmarked 10/8, IIRC. All from Trenton, NJ. It seems that the person(s) responsible were able to mail the letters two separate times without detection.

9. The press and a leader of the Democratic party were targeted (excluding the case in Florida which doesn't seem to fit). Some spores were found in the White House mail processing facility, but nothing concrete has been detemined about that yet.

Questions:

How could the perpetrator of the anthrax exposures mail the letters without becoming infected themselves? Did the processing equipment cause the spores to escape, or did the perpetrator have to mail the letters in a biohazard suit? Did they become infected? Did they leave the US on or around 10/8 after mailing the second letter? If I were investigating this case, I'd certainly be interested in other anthrax cases around the world.

Based on what we know now, I don't think that it will be easy to prove a bin Laden link. The attack seems too small-scale to fit his previous actions. Unless it was a "trial run". :-( If feels in my gut more like a domestic terrorist at present. Why would Daschle be targeted and not Bush, Hastert, Powell, Rumsfeld, etc., if it was a foreign person with grievances against the US? Targeting the press certainly makes sense if one wants to spread terror, but why the NY papers and NBC? Why not the Voice of America and CNN?

I hope who ever did it is found soon. I hope they don't end up just blaiming it on [link|http://www.apbonline.com/newscenter/majorcases/rudolph/|Eric Rudolph] though. (Unless he really is behind it.)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Choice of targets.
The tabloids publisher does not fit with bin Laden version - OBL is probably not aware of the existence of American Media and the crap they publish. But it fits rather well with a domestic right-wing nut.
New American media vs American Media?
found this [link|http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg101501.shtml|article] interesting

Anyway, my idea's that they sent that envelope of anthrax to "American Media" because they were given explicit orders to attack "the American media." Some former goatherd or eye surgeon or whatever \ufffd you don't need to be poor and uneducated to be ignorant \ufffd simply grabbed the yellow pages and looked up "American Media." And, lo and behold, there was an address. How convenient!

Darrell Spice, Jr.

[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

New That was a good joke...
But I can't take it as anything else.
New Shouldn't we presume a mind(s) as devious as anyone's here?
All the motives imaginable + the equally possible copy-cat or reversi (Israel plans the WTC attack!) permutations are: all up for grabs.

Now if any one of those letters had been mailed <9/10 ..
Otherwise: insufficient data.


A.
New And would there have been *any* unpleasant letter sent...
...if the media hasn't been shouting at every opportunity "We might be subject to Anthrax!"

I mean, talk about giving people ideas... I do wish they'd stop saying "Smallpox will probably be next." Are the media reporting the news, or creating it? (Guess that's one of those Eternal Questions, really...)

On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New Any day now.. expecting them to mention
'phlogiston' and other simple nasty-nasties. For our comfort and security, natch.

(Actually it does require something not easily taught, especially if the word isn't even in the curriculum - discretion?)

Agree - chicken/egg.
New Phlogiston?
Isn't it the thing that was presumed to be feeding fire before Lavoisier discovered oxigen? How is that a nasty-nastie? Or may be it was a test? :)
New Nah, it's a nickname
for a diabolically easy way to umm raise most "oxidizable" objects of any size, surface area to: 'kindling temperature'. Simple substances - one of these fortunately not available just Everywhere - but not a problem to obtain.

More I cannot say; not being coy - I dread when it hits the chat rooms and the mouth-breathers, especially in the police-state atmosphere next to follow from The Patriot [!!] Act operative *today*.



Ashton
New In a word: Yes
It would be foolish not to. Today I found out that the two suspects arrested in Texas were from Trenton, NJ. A third person from Trenton has been detained and has cashed checks for around $100,000. This according to a story in todays Wall Street Journal.

This is not to say that there is absolutely a connection but either someone is trying to frame the terrorists or this is just more evidence of the unGodly evil that Islamic terrorists are proud of. I'm sure bin Laden honors whoever has committed such murderous deeds.
New Please watch your terms.
unGodly ?

Isn't it by now crystal clear that, were it not for all these groups running around claiming
Mine's *Bigger* !!

.. we wouldn't have this Religious War #12,311 right now?

The Godly are interminably claiming Exclusive Marketing Rights to this same-supposedly
Godspectre

..and Each Group claims: all the Others are Wrong.

So it is very much a Godly #12,311 just like #12,310 and #12,309 and .. back to born-again Alley Oop. No?





A.
New So you think these acts were Godly?
Is that what you are getting at?!

I'll stand by my terminology and remind you that I am not claiming that "my" God is bigger than yours, theirs or anyone else's. I am stating that these terrorist acts are unGodly, by any religious definitions. Yes, these Islamic Extremists are using their Koran to find justification in God's name for such murder but the rest of the world (religious and otherwise) has condemned these horrific acts as brutal, savage and degrading to Islam.

Just because a small subset of religious maniacs claim that murder is a Godly act doesn't mean that all religious people think that way. So, I'll stick by my claim that these murders were not a Godly act, even if it upsets you. You seem to think we ought to throw out all religious texts just because of a few bad apples? This is not really a religious war but rather a power struggle that uses religion to motivate impoverished Islamic zealots.

New After x000 years: it's a pattern.
First Man creates the concept of God, then starts the personalizing, embellishing, *organizing* - naturally into competition / disagreement / WAR.

Ever thus. Find a new way to commune with the Mystery or: War #13,000 may be the Last. No non-radioactive non-mutated 'faithful' left: to 'adore' these Loving Gods\ufffd (who ever got the idea that an Omnipotent needs.. wants.. Anything! - especially 'adoration' from a fatally flawed alpha specimen species?)

However in Fact the Universe works: it has little or nothing to do with these patently Man-Made 'Gods', the setting up of huge Corporations/Power over masses and the accumulation of 'believers' in This version or That version.

Child abuse: Daddy in the sky will get you a bike. If you're good to Her.


{sheesh}
New Agreed, but not all wars are religious in nature.
I'm not sure what we are arguing about but I think it's religions relationship to wars. WWI and WWII were non-religious in nature, would you agree? The American Civil war was also non-religious.

So I guess some wars can be blamed on religion and others can be blamed on the struggle for power, although "power" wars are often disguised with a "righteous" religious cloak.






New Not so overtly as this one, perhaps
But God is ever on Our Side, in each one (each side too!). Armies have Chaplains. The businessmen left behind, unfortunately unable to er serve - get those lumps in throats as the martyrs return inert. (We just don't *call* them Martyrs, but treat the bodies identically.
Our propaganda == Islam's propaganda.)

[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=15301|Don Richards' little Twain find]

Don't you get it yet? The conditioning starts in the crib, and before the first cap-pistol. And Twain wasn't able to publish his little homily - in US and while alive. Posthumous. Accident... that we ever even saw it.

(Check out Karstens 'find' too -in Open Forum re Army subsidizing video 'training' games) Rest case.

It's ~ about sheep grazing. Docilely.



A.
     Should we suspect a connection between anthrax and 9/11? - (Another Scott) - (14)
         Choice of targets. - (Arkadiy) - (2)
             American media vs American Media? - (SpiceWare) - (1)
                 That was a good joke... - (Arkadiy)
         Shouldn't we presume a mind(s) as devious as anyone's here? - (Ashton) - (4)
             And would there have been *any* unpleasant letter sent... - (Meerkat) - (3)
                 Any day now.. expecting them to mention - (Ashton) - (2)
                     Phlogiston? - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                         Nah, it's a nickname - (Ashton)
         In a word: Yes - (brettj) - (5)
             Please watch your terms. - (Ashton) - (4)
                 So you think these acts were Godly? - (brettj) - (3)
                     After x000 years: it's a pattern. - (Ashton) - (2)
                         Agreed, but not all wars are religious in nature. - (brettj) - (1)
                             Not so overtly as this one, perhaps - (Ashton)

Particularly fine on the conical-bore cornet.
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