Scary - you sounded like Marlowe for a sec...

Post #147,508 by inthane-chan 3/21/04 11:09:17 PM Reply	Scary - you sounded like Marlowe for a sec...
Post #147,512 by deSitter 3/21/04 11:23:17 PM Reply	That one's gone and won't be making any more trouble Terrorists are criminals and should be treated like criminals. Deadly force authorized. The mistake is to elevate these vermin to political status. (Of course this is not a defense of Israel. There is none.) -drl
Post #147,538 by dmarker 3/22/04 4:11:04 AM Reply	Another one in Indonesia needs same Abu Bakir, About to get released from jail after escaping conviction of being spiritual leader of J.I. (the mob who blew up Bali). What was frightening about this nastie was the tirade of threats he made last week, against Australia & US for opposing his release> He ranted on about how the Bali bombers didn't actually kill enough infidels ... Where is the Israeli airforce when you need them. Doug M
Post #147,548 by bluke 3/22/04 5:52:02 AM Reply	Being condemned by the Europeans Israel has of course been condemned by the Europeans for this. Of course I don't recall Jack Straw condemning the US for trying to kill Saddam Hussein a year ago on the eve of the war.
Post #147,554 by pwhysall 3/22/04 7:25:22 AM Reply	Two words. "Due Process". It's what separates us from the animals. This was murder. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't give a toss what evidence you've got, or how much of a bastard the target is. The fact that we give all criminals a fair and just trial is a measure of how civilised we are. And THEN we lock 'em up and throw away the key. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home Page - Now with added Zing!]
Post #147,586 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 6:59:13 PM Reply	You're talking to the wrong side of the ocean, bub. We gave that up here in the States. Remember? Detention of "illegal combatants" even if they are citizens? Ringing any bells yet? bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,604 by deSitter 3/22/04 8:44:55 PM Reply	Hey that's us Israel did this, "bub". We SHOULD be doing it, and we would not have to worry about detainees or see people jump 1300 feet to a grease spot on the pavement. -drl
Post #147,619 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 8:57:19 PM 3/22/04 9:00:01 PM Reply	Hey Ross, how'd marlowe get your password? We SHOULD be doing this? Give me a break. Murder. We should be doing state sponsored murder. That your view? Neocons got you, have they? [Edit: Added explanation for the reading impaired ] In my original, I was responding to Peter's remark about "Due Process" bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism" Edited by mmoffitt March 22, 2004, 09:00:01 PM EST Expand All History
Post #147,621 by boxley 3/22/04 9:00:36 PM Reply	assasination is a tool that can be used in any war situation we used to shoot officers during our break with Britain. Oh the vapors the british had over that. Cutting off the head just makes all the other crowns uneasy, thats why they whine about it so much. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,624 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 9:02:50 PM Reply	It ain't just the royals, man. People who still stupidly believe that we are "A nation of Laws, not of Men" still believe in the Constitution and the rights it guarantees. Sorry you don't. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,635 by boxley 3/22/04 9:16:00 PM Reply	Wanna show me the part of the constitution that guarranties those rights offshore of US dirt? The constitution is a document that explains how we in America are to conduct the body politic within ourselves. In no place does it address how to treat foreigners in foreign lands except to say that the executive executes and the congress funds those activities. Assasination and wholesale slaughter of foreigners on soil outside the legal domain was encouraged by all of the forefathers and many since. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,641 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 9:21:07 PM Reply	Zionist Pig. I knew that'd get you. Only kidding, only kidding. My initial response to Peter was misinterpretted. I was talking about how we have abandoned the concept of "due process" at home. He, I think rightly, criticized the murder of the murderer because he was not tried and convicted. That used to be what we, here in the US of A were famous for. We didn't simply execute somebody because we thought they were guilty. We don't "lock people up", we weren't the ones with the Gulags. But now we are. And the name of our Gulag is Gitmo. And there is at least one American Citizen sitting there without his Constitutional Right to due process and it isn't on the radar screens of most Americans. And that, dear friend, is the true tragedy of the age in which we live. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,645 by boxley 3/22/04 9:26:38 PM Reply	but the murderer HAD been tried and convicted in a trial for exactly that but was released in a prisoner exchange. If he was still in Israeli Jail it would be a life sentence, they dont have a death sentence there. It wasnt until his prisoner swap that he went right back to killing Israelis, Kinda like if we gave Bundy a pass in florida and he moved to Orlando and went on doing serial murders. Now he is/was outside their juidicial jurisdiction sending killers into Israel and refused to stop. He is stopped now. Doesnt mean a shitload of others wont take his spot. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,647 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 9:30:39 PM Reply	Then what's the goal? Doesnt mean a shitload of others wont take his spot. Vengence? Is that it? We want our governments seeking vengence? Thank you, but I'll pass. I've heard several analysts who, I presume, know the situation a lot better than I, and perhaps even you, do. They all concur that we now can look forward to a period of increased violence and murder. I don't know the case, I wasn't talking about the case - I was remarking that it is not surprising that we would have no problem with another country abandoning "due process" because we had done so ourselves. Still, I maintain that no one has ever overcome and adversary by becoming just like him. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,651 by boxley 3/22/04 9:37:32 PM Reply	If they had asked me I woulda said leave him alone but they didnt, all the calls crying extra juidicial are bogus, he had already been tried convicted and "exchanged" not pardoned for multiple murders. It is polite when being exchanged to take yourself out of the running. That didnt happen here. If you look to our own war between the states if an exchanged prisoner showed back up on the feild he was sumarily executed. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,654 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 9:44:02 PM Reply	You know this case better than I. However, ... your claim that he continued to plan/execute murders after the exchange is, to the best of my knowledge, an unproven claim. So, he was, in fact, executed without due process. For, he was clearly not executed for the crimes of which he was convicted. Mind, this isn't my fight, just pointing this out. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,663 by boxley 3/22/04 10:12:50 PM Reply	well in his own words he stated to be the source of the suicide bombings, consistantly praised them and always promising more, what more do you need. Here is an alternative opinion, [link\|http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/165822_right23.html\|http://seattlepi.nws...5822_right23.html] Remember that Hamas' goals are not susceptible to concession or negotiation. The two-state solution, as envisaged by the Oslo agreement, would have been agreed and enacted during the last year of the Clinton administration if it weren't for the irreconcilable claims of militant minorities, such as Hamas, which in Yassin's words consider all of the land of Israel and Palestine to be "consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgment Day." As difficult as extremist nationalism is to mollify, that of Yassin's Hamas is worse, because he introduced the "spiritual" element into his call for jihad. After 9/11 and March 11 this year, the nature, the tactics and the goals of Islamic militancy should be apparent to everyone. Take the statement by Hamas, quoting from the Koran, "millions of Muslims will go out to 'visit with destruction all that fell into their power'." also note [link\|http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/archive/topic/154231-1.html\|http://www.tranceadd...pic/154231-1.html] search on Yassin, this guy was a hardcore. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,664 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 10:17:07 PM Reply	I have no doubt that he was an evil dude. But, I still have huge problems with the state killing some one without at least a trial. The first time this bothered me that I can recall was when Reagan killed Qadaffi's 9 month old daughter with Navy jets. I still haven't gotten over that completely. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,677 by boxley 3/22/04 11:38:13 PM Reply	he was given a trial and found guilty of multiple murder when the Israelis exchanged him he got back in the business right away. He is the acknowledged head of HAMAS. even hamas admits that! Found guilty, exchanged prisoner, started up again, I understand Quadaffi's daughter but this man happily admitted he was in the killing bidness for his cause so why the anguish about him being taken out by the opposition? It would be different if he even assumed a mantle of innocence but it was kill jews every day all the time. How many times do you have to try him? thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,623 by deSitter 3/22/04 9:02:06 PM Reply	No, you get rid of insane mayhem-bent scum by erasing them They have NO RIGHTS under our Constitution. I don't give a flying fuck what happens to them. I hope the virgins nag them for the rest of time. "Ahmed, you're a fat greasy pig and you have a small cock!" Libertarian spoken here. Fuck Marlowe the collectivist! -drl
Post #147,626 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 9:04:44 PM Reply	Back up, Quemosabe. Since WHEN TF do you get to decide - or more precisely, WHEN TF does ANYONE get to decide that an American citizen does not have his Constitutional Rights? My post is about American Citizens held indefinitely WITHOUT CHARGE, WITHOUT ACCESS TO LEGAL COUNSEL. You been watching FOX or what? bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,628 by deSitter 3/22/04 9:06:57 PM Reply	WTF? Am I defending Gitmo? How many posts have I made about the cops, the pols, the fucked up prison system, blah blah blah? I'm defending the violent, surprising, and final annihilation of scummy terror mongers whereever they stand or sit or leave a gummy trail in the dirt. -drl
Post #147,630 by mmoffitt 3/22/04 9:09:51 PM Reply	So, We overcome adversaries by becoming just like them, yes? And you didn't reply to Peter, you replied to me. And my post was about us abandoning Due Process rights FOR OUR OWN, thankyouverymuch. That said, I still don't see how you can posit that we can possibly overcome terrorism by becoming terrorists ourselves. Not all they're bitching about is without cause. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,602 by deSitter 3/22/04 8:43:36 PM Reply	Re: Two words. I'm all for civilization among the civilized, as you well know from my posts. Our greatest failing is our bursting prison system - greater than slavery, greater than Indian genocide. But this scum deserved exactly what he got - sudden annihilation from above - and so be it to all regressive raghead sons of whores and sleepers with swine. Instead of spending umpteen billion on a stupid useless war that dishonor the warriors, we should be seeking targets of raghead opportunity and destroying them violently, certainly, frequently, and permanently. That is all they understand, that is what they deserve, that is their due process. -drl
Post #147,609 by boxley 3/22/04 8:50:04 PM Reply	heh, bloody sunday==due process motenbeam "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,613 by deSitter 3/22/04 8:52:36 PM Reply	grin -drl
Post #147,702 by pwhysall 3/23/04 1:56:30 AM Reply	C'mon, Box. You know me better than that. Bloody Sunday was a massacre. It's a stain on my country's history. Do the actions of a number of people unrelated to me, before I was born, mean that I can't have an opinion on something that happened last week? Mote/beam, my arse. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #147,722 by boxley 3/23/04 8:01:59 AM Reply	you were born after 1972? pup :-) I understand your message and feelings however your government and co-citizens dont always share them. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #148,324 by a6l6e6x 3/24/04 8:34:35 PM 3/24/04 8:37:38 PM Reply	9/28/1972 (or 1972/9/28) was a great day! :) Alex "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923) Edited by a6l6e6x March 24, 2004, 08:37:38 PM EST Expand All History
Post #148,342 by deSitter 3/24/04 9:21:00 PM 3/24/04 9:23:52 PM Reply	I have his chart now I assumed he was born at 7:06 AM in Guisborough. That's the same as 6:66. He has a Mars-Pluto conjunction. Wow, the mark of Cain - 666 more or less for real - spooky. I have that too without so much Sun but with the Sun as a third partner in the conjunction. By another bizarre coincidence, this arbitrary choice of birthtime put the Sun directly on the Ascendant, and even weirder, his like mine is disjoint - power that doesn't know where to go. His squares Jupiter, rough, man. I wouldn't piss him off. But like mine, it's sextile Neptune, so it channels power into irresistable charm :) Seriously, life in a flowery minefield is interesting. 4 planets in Libra - intellectual bent as long as it doesn't get too personal. Libra is the "not me". Has to keep things tidily external, needs definite boundaries. Mercury is conjunct Uranus there - very logical with ability to brainstorm from nowhere. This is trine the Moon, meaning he feels very comfortable with ideas - but that Mars-Pluto-Sun fights against it with constant demands for reinvention of the Self - literally tearing up the old way and starting over. Mars is in late Virgo which makes this exceptionally hard (Virgo again is intellectual but in a sensual way, and Mars there prefers to work on objects rather than concepts and passions). Mars makes a weak square with Saturn (another thing we have in common) Throw in Pluto and frustration often results, generating a type of seething brimming conflicted energy that threatens to burst out at any time. This scares the shit out of people. If he wants to intimidate someone, it will be very easy. It would be interesting to have the correct birth time to see the house positions. Fascinating chart, at least from my perspective. -drl Edited by deSitter March 24, 2004, 09:23:52 PM EST Expand All History
Post #148,357 by boxley 3/24/04 9:37:10 PM Reply	4 houses in Libra? He's a sheep shagger :-0 In Bush\ufffds America, fighting terrorism abroad is used as a pretext for vanquishing civil liberties at home. David Podvin questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #148,433 by pwhysall 3/25/04 2:06:09 AM Reply	/me cackles I was born at 3 o'clock in the afternoon on the 27th, not the 28th :) Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #148,440 by deSitter 3/25/04 2:22:06 AM 3/25/04 2:25:27 AM Reply	Not much will change The Moon will move about 10 degrees. WHOA! That is freaky looking. A bit conficted over God are we? Lost our faith? Everything previously stated still applies. The motion of the Moon was not enough to break the aspect. In fact it became more pronounced. This is really an amazing configuration of planets. This is funny - Jupiter is at 0 Taurus and bang-on the the Ascendant. How big did you say you were? Jupiter rising, Neptune at home in 12 in the conjugate sign, 5 planets in the 9th house - your career path should have been "Messiah". BTW try not to be too dissatisfied with work, and don't overwork as compensation. Moon and Saturn in 6th, not a good work situation with all that Mars-Pluto energy trying to get out. edit: ADVICE: Travel or stifle. You have to move around. -drl Edited by deSitter March 25, 2004, 02:25:27 AM EST Expand All History
Post #148,510 by pwhysall 3/25/04 12:05:01 PM Reply	Re: Not much will change "Not much will change" That's true. It's still a load of steaming horseshit :) Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #148,587 by deSitter 3/25/04 6:04:47 PM Reply	Want the copy? -drl
Post #148,711 by pwhysall 3/26/04 1:52:41 AM Reply	Nah. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #148,949 by a6l6e6x 3/27/04 12:51:43 PM Reply	Re: 27th? How can my records be wrong? :) Alex "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)

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