Post #147,497
3/21/04 9:38:12 PM
|
Richard Clarke deconstructed at the Whiskey Bar
[link|http://billmon.org/archives/001239.html|Here].
It's an interesting thread. I have no idea of the veracity of the opening discussion, but it's a good starting point for deeper fact-checking.
(Found via the [link|http://weblog.siliconvalley.com/column/dangillmor/archives/010154.shtml#010154|discussion ] at Dan Gillmor's blog.)
Cheers,
Scott.
|
Post #147,498
3/21/04 10:06:02 PM
|
We know that dubbya wanted Iraq from the gitgo
and Sadaam needed to go no question but this indicates an blindness in the whitehouse to facts on the ground while permissible on the domestic front is deadly in the foreign affairs department.
thanx,
bill
when I was young I envisioned myself as the embodiment of Trinity, Now I realize I have turned into the Bambino
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #147,501
3/21/04 10:16:36 PM
|
Clark's book tomorrow, explosive
..adminitypes soon to appear before 9/11 commission in public hearings.
Clark states flatly - Rumsfeld said "Iraq! There are plenty of targets in Iraq!" - I think he believed in shock and awe and just wanted targets. Intelligence stated flatly - no connection between Iraq and Al-Q. The administration actively campaigned for cooked data. They knew the score and went ahead anyway. It's impeachable.
-drl
|
Post #147,502
3/21/04 10:41:46 PM
|
dammit its not impeachable, its stupidity
not treason. High crimes and misdemeanors is the standard. Perjury is a misdeamenor, lying to the American public is not. Lying to congress is a crime unless you are an "elected" executive official or a cabinet member unless you are under oath. You have to get Bush lying under oath or issuing orders under the patriot act against political opponants. otherwise nada.
thanx,
bill
when I was young I envisioned myself as the embodiment of Trinity, Now I realize I have turned into the Bambino
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #147,504
3/21/04 10:55:44 PM
|
Re: dammit its not impeachable, its stupidity
It's not stupidity when several people now have coroborrated the story - including O'Neill and Clark.
If it's a deliberate Reichstag-like orchestration then it's a misdemeanor if I ever saw one.
Rumsfeld stated - "NOT Afghanistan! Iraq! Iraq! Toujours Irak!" They IGNORED intelligence about a "big event" from Al-Q. That's not impeachable but a lie about a blowjob is?
The intelligence has actually been very good in hindsight - it was just spun and ignored.
-drl
|
Post #147,580
3/22/04 6:49:07 PM
|
If a bj is, why not this?
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #147,612
3/22/04 8:52:20 PM
|
a bj isnt perjury is, so far bush isnt under oath
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #147,616
3/22/04 8:55:00 PM
|
Please. You really think THAT was what it was about?
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #147,618
3/22/04 8:57:06 PM
|
that was the nail on which the indictment hung, yes
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #147,622
3/22/04 9:01:05 PM
|
High Crimes and misdemeanors.
Not a single lawyer, nor judge I know considers lying in a civil matter either.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #147,637
3/22/04 9:18:58 PM
|
really? meet the felons
readem and weep
[link|http://www.probe.org/docs/c-payprice.html|http://www.probe.org...s/c-payprice.html]
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #147,642
3/22/04 9:22:56 PM
|
Um, ...
in a civil matter. A blowjob is, I think you would agree, is not a criminal matter.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #147,646
3/22/04 9:27:57 PM
|
Grand Jury is not civil. Or do you forget?
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #147,648
3/22/04 9:32:26 PM
|
I didn't forget.
Why in the name of all that is holy did the question of a blow job EVER GET PUT to the Grand Jury? Talk about abuse of process....
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #148,538
3/25/04 2:04:15 PM
|
How do you feel about Martha Stewart?
Just a few thoughts,
Danno
|
Post #148,556
3/25/04 3:40:46 PM
|
How do I feel about Martha Stewart?
What has that got to do with anything?
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #148,570
3/25/04 4:51:52 PM
|
She got a tip...
They dismissed the insider trading charges. The only thing she is convicted of is purgery and obstruction of justice... Should she go to prison?
Just a few thoughts,
Danno
|
Post #148,598
3/25/04 6:23:20 PM
|
from what I heard those charges wernt proven
she was found guilty of being a snotty bitch, unfortunately thats not a crime.
thanx,
bill
In Bush\ufffds America, fighting terrorism abroad is used as a pretext for vanquishing civil liberties at home. David Podvin
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #148,823
3/26/04 3:15:37 PM
|
I don't know the case. But, ...,
probably not. However, I'll admit to being biased. I'm not a capitalist, so anything that makes working people lose faith in the stock market is a good thing imo. That said, even I'd argue that illegal trading practices are a much more serious vice in a capitalist society than getting a hummer. ;-)
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #147,510
3/21/04 11:17:37 PM
|
White House goes on offensive
[link|http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/03/21/bush.terror/index.html|CNN] The White House is dismissing as a "red herring" charges from the administration's former counter-terrorism coordinator that President Bush has been more focused on Iraq than al Qaeda. "He has chosen at this critical time, in the middle of a presidential campaign, to inject himself into the political debate," spokesman Dan Bartlett said. "And he has every right to do so. But in so doing, his judgments -- his actions, or the lack thereof -- should also come under scrutiny." The White House is basically accusing Clarke of fabricating much of the material in his book for poltical reasons. From what I have seen, much of Clarke's material is backed up by other authors and leaked reports. How much of that makes it into the press remains to be seen. Jay
|
Post #147,514
3/21/04 11:28:13 PM
|
Was on 60 Minutes tonight
-right after a close basketball game with the number 1 seed getting upset by the 10th. So, a large audience was on hand. He corroborated everything already stated by O'Neill - Bush was adrift from reality, Iraq was a target on day 1, advice was ignored...I can't see how this fails to make a huge impact.
-drl
|
Post #147,585
3/22/04 6:56:43 PM
|
And did you notice what he said about Clinton?
First time I've heard any McNews outlet mention the fact that a similar plot to blow up airliners was foiled because Clinton, unlike the intellectually challenged Bush, according to Clarke called his cabinet to "battle stations" and they were able to intercept the terrorist as he came into the country on his way to LAX!
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #147,581
3/22/04 6:50:42 PM
|
I'm not too big to say ...
I told you this was a redneck goin' after "that man what trahed to keel mah daddee." Sometimes, it is that simple.
Dunno if below was the first time I said it, but it was last fall. ;-)
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=117107|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=117107]
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #148,325
3/24/04 8:42:40 PM
|
It was said before the war by Arkadiy, I think.
Alex
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
|
Post #148,492
3/25/04 10:08:31 AM
|
If I did, I can't find it. But I thought so for sure.
--
Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them.
--Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum
|
Post #148,507
3/25/04 11:45:56 AM
|
Sorry.
If I wasn't first, I sure thought I was. That post I linked I know for sure was not the first time I said it. I may not have even posted it here, but that was my thinking when the first few words were uttered about going into Iraq. If you posted it here before me, I apologize for attempting to steal your thunder ;-)
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
|
Post #148,948
3/27/04 12:46:15 PM
|
Must have read your mind! :)
No, actually you did say something like that and, at the time, I said Bush would invade Iraq on Israel's behalf.
Alex
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
|
