Linux Desktop UI

Post #146,912 by tuberculosis 3/18/04 11:31:19 AM Reply	Linux Desktop UI Java, Mono, or C++? [link\|http://ometer.com/desktop-language.html\|http://ometer.com/desktop-language.html] If those are indeed the choices, just toss the thing out the window now. Nobody will write desktop apps for it. I still think the best bet would be to get behind GnuStep and more or less clone Mac OS X's application level runtime (while maybe doing a different look). Mac developers would port their stuff. All the current desktop UI's require expert level developers. Thats like 1 in 1000. No wonder there aren't that many applications for the thing. Application development needs to be EASY. Not require C or (god forbid) C++ to slap something up on the screen. The tree of research must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of bean counters. -- Alan Kay
Post #146,914 by pwhysall 3/18/04 11:55:53 AM Reply	Perl + Glade. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home Page - Now with added Zing!]
Post #146,915 by inthane-chan 3/18/04 12:22:07 PM Reply	What happened to Kylix?
Post #147,048 by inthane-chan 3/19/04 9:12:59 AM Reply	No, really, what happened to Kylix? I heard all this stuff about the great potential of Borland Delphi, heard a few "meh" reviews when it came out on Linux, and then... Nothing! So where does it stand these days? "I'll stop calling this crew 'Orwellian' when they stop using 1984 as an operations manual." - J. Bradford DeLong
Post #147,103 by altmann 3/19/04 4:10:22 PM Reply	Neglected Difficult to get running on recent distros/kernels. Borland seems to have been concentrating on Delphi.NET and C++BuilderX to the detriment of their other products. It might have a future, but Borland appears to be heading towards wxWindows rather than Qt for the underlying toolkit (C++BuilderX doesn't have a RAD GUI designer yet), so a new Kylix could be quite a rework. I suspect C++BuilderX will eventually become the replacement for Kylix. -- Chris Altmann
Post #146,944 by mmoffitt 3/18/04 2:13:10 PM 3/18/04 2:14:06 PM Reply	My vote. (Edit: link fixed) [link\|http://www.realbasic.com\|http://www.realbasic.com] bcnu, Mikem I don't do third world languages. So no, I don't do Java. Edited by mmoffitt March 18, 2004, 02:14:06 PM EST Expand All History
Post #146,967 by tuberculosis 3/18/04 4:06:36 PM Reply	Only good for 2-tier stuff not that there isn't a bunch of 2-tier stuff to write - but the thing should scale. Besides, RB could be ported if the UI layer were compatible. The tree of research must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of bean counters. -- Alan Kay
Post #146,974 by mmoffitt 3/18/04 4:55:21 PM Reply	That's gotta be coming, don't you think? I don't have any real experience with it, a friend forwarded me a link and I downloaded the eval to play with. Of the few things I've used to build GUI's for Linux desktops, it was the easiest (which is most likely a consequence of my considerable VB experience). There was a product that I played with once that came bundled with Caldera (in the pre-evil days). Heh, just checked and they're still alive: [link\|http://www.omnis.net\|http://www.omnis.net] I didn't play with it long and it was years ago, but I might take another look at it. AFA Kylix goes, I'd just as soon write C. Just my 2. bcnu, Mikem I don't do third world languages. So no, I don't do Java.
Post #146,978 by tuberculosis 3/18/04 5:03:09 PM Reply	Omnis is a very old database/4GL Been around on Macintosh since 1989 at least. For quickie pure crud apps it seems pretty good. But it is yet another 2-tier solution. I'm not saying 2-tier is fundamentally evil - but it doesn't make it easy to consolidate business logic unless you embody it as stored procs in the database. The tree of research must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of bean counters. -- Alan Kay
Post #146,982 by mmoffitt 3/18/04 5:16:31 PM Reply	And what's wrong w/stored procs? I know, I know, I'm old. I'm not "with it". ;-) bcnu, Mikem I don't do third world languages. So no, I don't do Java.
Post #147,006 by tuberculosis 3/18/04 6:43:52 PM Reply	Nothing if people would use them but they tend to put all the logic in the UI because they can only cope with on programming model at a time. The tree of research must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of bean counters. -- Alan Kay
Post #147,007 by deSitter 3/18/04 6:51:41 PM Reply	grin -drl
Post #147,044 by mmoffitt 3/19/04 8:43:39 AM Reply	Is that the reason? I swear I've never understood why people treat databases that way. Friends of mine have called me anal because I never let anyone have access to base tables no matter how small the application. Every table, at minimum, has insert, update and delete sp's, and at least a view or two with select only permissions (that's a simplification, but you get the idea). I'm working right now with 5 developers who have "considerable database experience". None of them have ever used stored procedures. In fact, 2 of them don't know what they are! I've always been amazed whenever I see a database that doesn't have a single stored procedure in it. But I've seen a hell of a lot more of those than I have any other kind. <sigh> bcnu, Mikem I don't do third world languages. So no, I don't do Java.
Post #147,106 by tuberculosis 3/19/04 4:13:39 PM Reply	Amounts to ignorance usually. They only know the language they code the app in. SQL is a whole other domain and their hammer doesn't fit that nail. As an example, an app I've taken over has all of the queries/calls stored in a resource file along with a special parameter type specification string. These could all have been stored procedures, (and sort of are stored procs but they're not stored in the db) but I think the developers were not acquianted with sp's and so they load them up as strings and cache them as jdbc prepared statements. OTOH, I seldom create sp's either as I generally use something like cayenne that handles sql generation based on db neutral specifications and metamodels. I don't necessarily believe in wrapping all access to tables in sp's but I most strenuously object to the occurrence of "select *" in production code (much more common than you might think and a major cause of breakage). I'm also kind of distrustful of sp's in postgres as they don't get checked for sanity until invoked and thus latent bugs can hide fairly easily. The tree of research must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of bean counters. -- Alan Kay
Post #147,114 by mmoffitt 3/19/04 4:52:47 PM Reply	I guess it's my upbringing. I don't necessarily believe in wrapping all access to tables in sp's... My first real job using a database was in the health industry. Medical information about individuals, for reasons beyond my comprehension, is of a highly sensitive nature. We had to do all we could to look down access to data - any data, no matter how irrelevant. I've wrapped all access to tables in sp's and views ever since. IMO, it harms nothing and can help tremendously. bcnu, Mikem I don't do third world languages. So no, I don't do Java.
Post #147,118 by tuberculosis 3/19/04 5:29:42 PM Reply	I don't get your rationale (new thread) Created as new thread #147117 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=147117\|I don't get your rationale] The tree of research must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of bean counters. -- Alan Kay
Post #146,946 by deSitter 3/18/04 2:39:11 PM Reply	Agreed Mac convergence is the answer. Nothing else can ultimately succeed. KDE is nice but outdated in conception. -drl
Post #147,019 by boxley 3/18/04 8:36:47 PM Reply	I think Microfocus Cobol has a linux version I know they have a ton of intel on nix versions. Two tier I know but scalable all the way. thanx, bill when I was young I envisioned myself as the embodiment of Trinity, Now I realize I have turned into the Bambino questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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