IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Text of Iraq's interrim constitution
[link|http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113576,00.html|http://www.foxnews.c...33,113576,00.html]
--

...what happened to intelligence of this country?
-- Sen. Kerry.
New And, that's more than Israel has.
Alex

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom ... the argument of tyrants ... the creed of slaves. -- William Pitt, addressing the British House of Commons (1783)
New depends on the model
[link|http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles3/constisramer.htm|http://www.jcpa.org/.../constisramer.htm]
Constitutional Models
1. Constitution as Frame of Government and Protector of Rights e.g., English-speaking countries of the New World
2. Constitution as Code e.g., Continental European democracies, India
3. Constitution as Revolutionary Manifesto e.g., Soviet bloc countries, Yugoslavia
4. Constitution as Political Ideal e.g., Latin American and African states
5. Constitution as Adaptation of Ancient Traditions e.g., United Kingdom, Israel, Iran
As for what has transpired in Iraq you have a constitution based on example number 1 imposed on a population more suited to number 5. let me add the following quote from the above link
It is an even greater art to bring the constituency to endow the constitution with legitimacy. Constitutional legitimacy involves consent. It is not a commitment which can be coerced -- however much people can be coerced into obedience to a particular regime. Consensual legitimacy is utterly necessary for a constitution to have real meaning and to last. The very fact that, while rule can be imposed by force, constitutions can only exist as meaningful instruments by consent, is another demonstration that constitution-making is the preeminent political act.
while the one written in Iraq sounds good, lets give it a year or two to see what it turns into.
thanx,
bill







when I was young I envisioned myself as the embodiment of Trinity, Now I realize I have turned into the Bambino
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New I'll agree that the value of the Iraqi provisional ...
constitution is yet to be determined. It's temporary in any case. But, any constitution that does not protect the citizen from the government is not worth the paper it's written on.

The lack of a constitution in Israel is why the Israeli Arab are second class citizens without recourse for getting equal treatment by the government.
Alex

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom ... the argument of tyrants ... the creed of slaves. -- William Pitt, addressing the British House of Commons (1783)
New thats bs and you know it
we had a constitution since 1776 and the blacks are treated equally to whites in America?
sure they are. You live where? Are you sure?:-)

Constitutions are better than basic law? Depends on the law. Talmudic law is refined over centuries on how man should treat his fellow man and man's relationship to the laws of G_d as laid down in the first 5 books. A similar notion to Supreme Court interpretation of the constitution refined by precedent over the last 228 years in America. The Jews have about 1800 written documented years of precededent and refinement. Does this equal justice for Israeli Arabs? Not anymore than a constitution does for Leanard Peltier, Dr. King, Rodney King and Mrs O.J. Simpson does in America.
Would I live in Israel? Only if it looked like she was going under or if I had to fight my way out of the camps here. Explain your position on how the rights enshrined in the basic law would be enforced if Israel enshrined those same rights in a "constitution" Oh yeah, Sharon could be appointed just like Scalia to their Supreme court. Laws are no better than the scoundrels that enforce them.
thanx,
bill
when I was young I envisioned myself as the embodiment of Trinity, Now I realize I have turned into the Bambino
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Yes, a constitution has to be put in practice and its
principles applied fairly. And in the US, it has not and does not always do its job. But generally speaking, it does work and you can refer to it to identify the wrongs done to people. I need not tell you it's not that lengthy a document.

Israel does not have a constitution because it would be embarrassed by what it would have to say to account for all those archaic religious laws.

I expect better.
Alex

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom ... the argument of tyrants ... the creed of slaves. -- William Pitt, addressing the British House of Commons (1783)
New While we're on the topic
of constitutions, here is the old Soviet one: [link|http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/r100000_.html|http://www.oefre.uni...icl/r100000_.html]
--

...what happened to intelligence of this country?
-- Sen. Kerry.
New Another take on it.
[link|http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2004/03/Structuralsolutions.shtml|From Stephen Den Beste]

Excerpts:
This is an example of two natural risks facing any democratic system, which are known as the tyranny of the majority and the tyranny of the minority. If the system goes all the way and gives full power to majority rule, then the majority may use the system to seriously infringe the rights of dissenting minorities, whether they be ethnic, religious, political or life-style. On the other hand, if the system goes too far in the direction of giving such minorities the ability to block governmental action, they can gain the power to extort concessions from the majority by paralyzing the system if they don't get what they want. Finding a balance between these two has always been difficult, and there is no ideal solution...

The Europeans tried to use a semantic solution: they directly addressed the issue and tried to solve it by explicitly allocating the number of seats among the states based on the political situation and population numbers as they exist now.

The American solution was structural; it did not directly address the issue, but rather set up a structure under which the issue ceased to be a threat to the system. It is inherent in a federal system that there will always be tension between large states and small states and there still is such tension, but the American system deals with that tension even though no one in 1787 could possibly have predicted which states would be big and which would be small. As of the 2000 census, the most populous state in the US is California and the least populous is Wyoming, neither of which even existed in 1787.

It isn't possible to completely avoid semantic solutions, and the US Constitution contains many. But in nearly every case they address eternal issues. (There are also certain clauses which deal with ratification and suchlike.)

...The primary problem here is designing a system which can be implemented and which will not destroy itself or become tyrannical. To even go into effect, it has to be approved by the Sunnis, the Kurds, the Shiites and the Americans (and British, but we're mainly driving this). The three Iraqi factions don't trust one another, and none of them totally trust the Americans or vice versa.

Of the four, the American demands were the most radical. The Iraqi constitution was required to guarantee the right of free expression, the principle of equal justice, the right of free exercise of religion, and the full and unconditional equality of women. It had to be democratic and it had to be secular. It had to establish an independent and impartial judiciary. It had to place all military power under civilian control. It absolutely could not fully and unconditionally incorporate Sharia as a body of law. If it did not satisfy the American demands, the Americans wouldn't approve it.

Bit within those considerable limits, those writing the Iraqi constitution also had to create a system acceptable to the three primary factions inside of Iraq. If they did not, the system would shake itself to pieces and there was a risk of Iraqi civil war.

The divisions within Iraq are very real. But this constitution takes advantage of the fact that there are three competing factions none of which really trusts the other. This constitution leverages that weakness, and makes it into a strength.




----------------------------------------------------------------
DEAL WITH IT.
"YAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!" - Howard Dean
"How can I go to the bathroom when my people are in bondage?" - Saddam Hussein
"If I may be candid for a moment, and let's see you try to stop me..." - Jay Conrad Levinson
Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11.
"I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle
Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
     Text of Iraq's interrim constitution - (Arkadiy) - (7)
         And, that's more than Israel has. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
             depends on the model - (boxley) - (3)
                 I'll agree that the value of the Iraqi provisional ... - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                     thats bs and you know it - (boxley) - (1)
                         Yes, a constitution has to be put in practice and its - (a6l6e6x)
         While we're on the topic - (Arkadiy)
         Another take on it. - (marlowe)

I found Soylent to be a punishingly boring, joyless product.
69 ms