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New WaPo: Municipal elections a success in Shia Iraq
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A44553-2004Feb15?language=printer|Suck it up, Saddam lovers]

Excerpts:

CHEBAYISH, Iraq -- The banner outside declared the occasion: the first free elections in this hardscrabble southern town, battered by President Saddam Hussein and neglected in the disarray that followed. Campaign posters of men in turbans, suits and street clothes crowded for space along the wall of the polling station, peering at the gathering crowds. Inside was Tobin Bradley, a 29-year-old American trying to pull off the vote and, in the process, possibly reshape Iraq's transition from occupation...

Women's participation was a particular problem. A total of three women voted in the two elections before the rule change. In the election after the revision, in Batha, 62 women -- from a total of 1,200 -- cast ballots. Then female activists from Nasiriyah, the provincial capital, got involved, going door to door with leaflets and broadcasting a message from the mosque loudspeaker after the noon prayers...

"There's no national pride, it seems like to me. People want to take," he said in an interview at his office, guarded by Italian troops. "Everybody's thinking about themselves. That's what Saddam encouraged, that's what he rewarded."

But to him, the stakes are higher. He recalled working in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research for four nights after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. He was angry and, with a bent of idealism, he was determined to bring about change, he said.

"We have an opportunity to start something good here. Whatever you think of the war, I have the opportunity to build a stable democracy here in Iraq," he said. "It doesn't matter whether you were for it or against it. The fact of the matter is we're here."

...

As some voters left, they made the point that they were doing what Sistani, the grand ayatollah, had urged. Others were encouraged that if elections could take place in a town like Fuhud, they could take place anywhere. An undercurrent in the conversations was that, given the success in Dhi Qar, the U.S. administration had less of an excuse to refuse to allow a vote soon.

"If the Americans reject the elections, we'll reject them," Faraj Alaywi, a 26-year-old nurse, said as a gusty wind blew through the town. "The Iraqi people want elections, 200 percent. The world says elections aren't possible, but we want them."

One reservation cited by opponents of quick elections is the fear that religious extremists would emerge victorious. But in many of the elections in Dhi Qar, Bradley said, teachers, doctors, lawyers and others have won. In the town of Rifai, professionals won seven of 10 races. In Batha, only two representatives of Islamic parties won seats on the 10-member council.

In the elections this past week, though, there were signs that the parties were beginning to mobilize. In Chebayish, members of the two strongest Islamic parties -- the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and the Dawa party -- passed out lists of candidates. Some were handwritten, others typed. Many voters brought the lists inside and obediently marked off the choices.

I say:

Slow but sure. Moving forward is the definition of progress. And moving forward against resistance is the definition of work. And of victory.

The terrorists murder these people by the dozens to stop the move toward democracy and true self rule. But these people have been used to that all their lives. They won't be intimidated. They smell freedom now.

"Religious extremists" as opposed to what? Non-religious extremists? Or religious non-extremists? I give three-to-two odds the people of Shia Iraq are fed up with extremism. The only way religious extremists are going to take over - temporarily - is if the people decide they want revenge against their former oppressors in the Sunni triangle. Which could very well happen. But in that case, who will shed tears for the victims? Face it, they've got it coming. And once that's done, they'll have closure, and be able to focus on building their own society.

Iraq is not a real nation. Never was. That thousands of years of history talk is bullshit. But the Iraqi Shia, for better or worse, are a people. So are the Kurds. If self-determination for groups means anything at all, it must be for groups as distinct and unified as these.

And by exposing them to democracy, we plant a seed - the idea of self-determination at the individual level. Either it blossoms or it doesn't. But it can't hurt.
----------------------------------------------------------------
DEAL WITH IT.
"YAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!" - Howard Dean
"How can I go to the bathroom when my people are in bondage?" - Saddam Hussein
"If I may be candid for a moment, and let's see you try to stop me..." - Jay Conrad Levinson
Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11.
"I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle
Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New Well, I guess that shut them up.
Not even a "so what" from lincoln.

Gee, you'd think no one around here cared about democracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------
DEAL WITH IT.
"YAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!" - Howard Dean
"How can I go to the bathroom when my people are in bondage?" - Saddam Hussein
"If I may be candid for a moment, and let's see you try to stop me..." - Jay Conrad Levinson
Compromise is for suckers. Seeking a middle ground is what led to 9/11.
"I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites." - Bill Whittle
Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New Well...
Since your link was entitled "Suck it up, Saddam lovers", people who aren't Saddam lovers probably weren't interested in reading it.

If you want to have a conversation here, I'm sure some will oblige. If you want to give your opinion, I don't think many will mind. However, if you want to insult people who disagree with you, then you may not get many responses.

Such is life.

But you know that.

Cheers,
Scott.
New We're fine with democracy
...it's you no one particularly cares about.
     WaPo: Municipal elections a success in Shia Iraq - (marlowe) - (3)
         Well, I guess that shut them up. - (marlowe) - (2)
             Well... - (Another Scott)
             We're fine with democracy - (rcareaga)

Shown here is a tranquil scene in the north woods. A beaver has just completed its dam, two black bears forage for food, a swallow-tailed butterfly flutters in the foreground, a loon swims quietly by, and a kingfisher searches for a tasty fish.
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