Yep, I agree

Post #140,188 by Nightowl 2/6/04 12:49:17 AM Reply	Yep, I agree I might eventually buy it, but it will be when we're in a better financial situation. :) Just one question though, my friend was termed an "idealist" in the online test, but the book doesn't list that term, and I'm not sure which category in the book would be the idealist. Any idea how to figure it out? We believe his first two letters were IT. Thanks! Brenda Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,190 by deSitter 2/6/04 1:02:47 AM Reply	AHHH! Such triviality makes one want to scream in pain that he shares this ball with so many buffoons. -drl
Post #140,191 by Nightowl 2/6/04 1:06:17 AM Reply	You know what your problem is, Ross? You don't let things "tickle" you enough. ;) Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,192 by deSitter 2/6/04 1:10:03 AM Reply	fscking idiot -drl
Post #140,193 by Nightowl 2/6/04 1:12:49 AM Reply	What puzzles me most Is when this thread started awhile back, and I first thought I was an ESTJ, you commented that you were the exact opposite. If it had absolutely no merit to you whatsoever, why would you have pointed that out? ;) Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,194 by deSitter 2/6/04 1:18:30 AM Reply	Re: What puzzles me most Like I said, it's fun as a 1st approximation to something real, Jung's analysis of psychological types, which is a deep and fascinating analysis based on ideas that require actual involvement and thought, not application of cookbook formulas. I also have a keen sense of irony. I could not be happier that your stupid book puts us on opposite sides of existence. Would that it were another planet. -drl
Post #140,195 by Nightowl 2/6/04 1:19:20 AM Reply	Then do me a favor And let it be fun for me. Like I said before, it tickled me that I was right when all I did was guess. You don't have to understand why that is, and you don't have to care, but you can stop poking holes in every balloon I get. You are such a puzzlement. One minute you are being nice and helping me achieve something, i.e. the lightbulb solution, and the next you are a complete ass. Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,196 by deSitter 2/6/04 1:24:10 AM Reply	Re: Then do me a favor I can't stand triviality in any form. There is no excuse for being trivial. Stupiditylike ugliness is a curse of birth, but triviality is choice. I am helping you - learn Jung's theory of types and then you will know something worthwhile. But of course that's not what you want, you want another mirror. -drl
Post #140,198 by Nightowl 2/6/04 1:33:15 AM Reply	A lot you know I don't even LIKE mirrors. I only use them when necessary. So if you think I sit around and admire myself, you are sadly mistaken. You're so obsessed with the word narcissim that you find it everywhere, even where it doesn't even exist. A true narcissist wouldn't have wondered whether or not her needs were more important than someone else's, for example. I think VERY little of myself, something I'm trying to change, and just because you think I think the world of myself doesn't make it so. Whatever... YASNWI. Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,201 by deSitter 2/6/04 1:41:17 AM Reply	Re: A lot you know Why do you think little of yourself? You're as good or bad as anyone else. Clue - we're all fucked up, we're all gonna die, and life in the USA sucks. So get over it. I wouldn't bother with a waste case anyway. You're frustrating because you clearly AREN'T STUPID, but you go down these garden paths...and it's probably just me. One day I wandered way out on the edge and it gets sad out here. In any case I'm in a horrible mood, so there. When I get like this, it's bad. -drl
Post #140,203 by Nightowl 2/6/04 1:53:26 AM Reply	Good question... I used to think so little of myself because I never felt worthwhile, made bad or stupid decisions, and was devalued by most people. Now I actually feel better about myself, although not where I would like it to be, so I'm not sure why I can't just trust that I have changed, and I am not that person who doesn't make stupid mistakes anymore. No, I'm not stupid, but I still remember those mistakes... And I've been out on that edge before, more literally than you realize, and I know it's sad out there. But if you stay out there where it's so sad, you never find the light that is inside you, and you never find that inner happiness. Maybe it is just you, because I don't think life in the US sucks. Sure, it could be better, but bottom line, I'm not living a bad life. I actually almost like myself now, I'm feeling more and more positive about reentering the work force, and I have people around me who care about me. So I ask myself sometimes, why I still go out on those limbs to those people who are hanging there, why I try to reach out to the ones who close the doors of life and huddle behind them... and the answer is always the same... why not? Maybe the world isn't so great, Ross, but the part of the world that we are in, however small or large, whether real or virtual, can be made as great as we choose, or as bad as we choose. Personally, I choose to do my best to make it great. :) Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,204 by deSitter 2/6/04 2:00:44 AM Reply	Re: Good question... You're just afraid to face how horrible it is. People are horrible, the country is horrible, friends turn out to be liars and cheats, institutions crumble under greed and venality, lies are set up as truth, you can trust no one, it's all an endless vortex of crudity and waste. It is a horrible world we made for ourselves, filled with misery and suffering and a mass of hopeless people with an iron boot jammed into their collective napes, trying to pretend it's some fucking paradise on a hill. There is nothing wrong with you - when you live in a stinking hell like this, you can't help but feel bad if your eyes are half open - you've chosen to blame yourself and you shouldn't do that. Personally, I can live with the horror of truth, because the horror of living a lie is far worse. -drl
Post #140,205 by Nightowl 2/6/04 2:09:28 AM 2/6/04 2:12:02 AM Reply	But the key word is "some"... Some people are horrible, some things about the country are horrible, some friends turn out to be liars and cheats (had personal experience there), some institutions crumble, others survive, and some people CAN be trusted. It's that difference, that word "some" that gives people hope. I'm not afraid to face the truth at all. I'm scared to death to go downtown in broad daylight. I know not all people are good and very bad things happen everywhere. And yes, it makes you feel bad that you aren't even brave enough to go downtown by yourself, but on the other hand, you are seeing the reality. It's finding even one person who isn't horrible, or one person who is honest or one institution that doesn't screw you over, that makes it all worth it. I'm not really blaming myself anymore. I used to, I listened to everyone who blamed me. I thought I was put on earth to be kicked around, put down and treated bad. Thank God I woke up, and I realized I had just as much value as anyone else. I'm just still adjusting to that realization, and trying to overcome years of believing I was worthless. And I feel I am making progress, because every day I feel better and better about myself, who I am, and what I do. But I'm a long long way from admiring myself in the mirror, if ever. I don't think I'll ever want to do that. I consider it a major breakthrough that you and I can even have a reasonable conversation, which I feel we are. I considered it a breakthrough today when Marlowe told me, "That's fair" in response to something I had said. Like you said, in so many words, if I considered either a hopeless cause, I'd abandon it. Nightowl >8# Edit: corrected spelling of Marlowe. "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer Edited by Nightowl Feb. 6, 2004, 02:12:02 AM EST Expand All History
Post #140,206 by deSitter 2/6/04 2:13:39 AM 2/6/04 2:14:37 AM Reply	Re: But the key word is "some"... Enjoy your book - there is nothing wrong with you. I'm just consumed by bitterness and there is no way out. I'm sorry. -drl Edited by deSitter Feb. 6, 2004, 02:14:37 AM EST Expand All History
Post #140,207 by Nightowl 2/6/04 2:15:26 AM Reply	I'm sorry too. :) For anything and everything I've ever done to upset you. I'm truly glad that you are healing and getting better, and that the benefits might be extended. Take care Ross, cheer up, at least we didn't get the 4 inches of snow! ;) Nite Nite Brenda "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,208 by deSitter 2/6/04 2:20:27 AM Reply	Re: I'm sorry too. :) Why? WHY ARE YOU SORRY? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO BE SORRY FOR? I was the asshole, I get to say I'm sorry! THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. -drl
Post #140,251 by Nightowl 2/6/04 10:30:11 AM Reply	Okay then. :) Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,275 by FuManChu 2/6/04 12:34:26 PM Reply	Google is your friend "keirsey idealist" -> [link\|http://keirsey.com/personality/nf.html\|http://keirsey.com/personality/nf.html] Idealist == ?NF?. To examine the other two aspects, your friend might take the full test in the PUM book.
Post #140,279 by Nightowl 2/6/04 1:01:44 PM Reply	Believe me, I considered that But I would have to type the entire test out and then email it to him, as well as the directions for scoring... (sigh) and that feels like an EXTREME job. I don't think he's the "library" type, but I could suggest it. I think he said the other two letters were IT. Would that make him an ITNF? I'll check out the link you gave, thanks. :) I was just trying to match the word Idealist to one of the terms used in the book, and the closest I came to was maybe the Questor. Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #140,281 by Nightowl 2/6/04 1:08:52 PM Reply	Hmmm that doesn't work He couldn't be an ITNF because he either has to be a T or an F... Grrrr.... The link says a full description of the Idealist is in the book, but I ain't found it yet! ;) Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #141,024 by Nightowl 2/10/04 7:23:42 PM Reply	Hey FuManChu guess what? While we were out shopping Saturday for John's birthday, we stopped in at a Barnes & Noble, and I decided to look for Keirsey's book. I didn't find the original, but I found the second one, "Please Understand Me 2" and since it had the same test in it and all plus seemed to have all of the first book in it too, but updated and revised, John got it for me. :) He's also gonna see if he can scan the test in so I won't have to type it. :) Meanwhile, I finished reading the first book while waiting in line in several instances, so I've got a better handle on the types and stuff. Thanks for all your help! Nightowl >8# "To become different from what we are, we must have some awareness of what we are." Eric Hoffer
Post #141,076 by FuManChu 2/11/04 12:22:40 AM Reply	Excellent! You're quite welcome.

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