I never said that

Post #135,788 by Nightowl 1/14/04 8:06:35 PM Reply	I never said that All I said was there is more to marriage than having children, that a perfectly happy marriage can exist without any children in it, and that the sole reason for marriage is not just to have children. Nightowl >8# "It is understanding that gives us an ability to have peace. When we understand the other fellow's viewpoint, and he understands ours, then we can sit down and work out our differences." Harry S. Truman "Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." Timothy Bentley
Post #135,789 by ben_tilly 1/14/04 8:21:47 PM 1/14/04 8:48:56 PM Reply	You never said anything against it either The definition of marriage that you gave makes gay marriage fit perfectly. The definition of marriage that you gave also makes it OK for people over 50 to get married. I find it amusing that many people have no problem when an older couple marries, but are vehemently against gay marriages, "because marriage is about kids." Cheers, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi] Edited by ben_tilly Jan. 14, 2004, 08:48:56 PM EST Expand All History
Post #135,790 by Nightowl 1/14/04 8:28:05 PM Reply	Stop putting words in my mouth I never said I was against OR for gay marriage. I simply said that marriage did not require children. I never stated my views about gay marriage either way and I don't appreciate you deciding what I think. Besides, gay couples can also have children, just not each others. I don't think age OR sexual preference have anything to do with my original statement, that children are not necessary for a happy or successful marriage. Nightowl >8# "It is understanding that gives us an ability to have peace. When we understand the other fellow's viewpoint, and he understands ours, then we can sit down and work out our differences." Harry S. Truman "Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." Timothy Bentley
Post #135,795 by Another Scott 1/14/04 8:50:17 PM Reply	Hint - Nobody said you did. Alex and Ben were just pointing out logical inferences that could be made from your initial comment. They're not putting words in your mouth. You said earlier that you don't get hints. It's funny that you seem to be willing to jump to conclusions.... That's often a sing of insecurity, in my experience. On gay marriage, my feelings are that the state should be more interested in whether two adult people are living together as a family. The state should be interested in promoting families. It shouldn't matter if the people have the same or different gender. But I think the issue is bigger than that. For instance, my grandfather and his sister lived together for many years after their spouses died. IMO, they should have had all of the benefits that a married couple had as far as the state is concerned. Restricting the debate to children or sex does a disservice to committed relationships that aren't sexual and don't involve children. So for me, it boils down to commitment that two people make to each other. If you're an adult and voluntarily make a commitment to an unrelated person to form a family, then you should be able to be married. Similarly, if two related people, like my grandfather and great aunt, are living together as a family, then they should have all the rights of a man and wife (being able to file joint tax returns, having medical rights that a spouse would have, survivorship, etc., etc.). Cheers, Scott.
Post #135,798 by Nightowl 1/14/04 8:57:46 PM Reply	Re: Hint - Nobody said you did. You said earlier that you don't get hints. It's funny that you seem to be willing to jump to conclusions.... That's often a sing of insecurity, in my experience. Well, I was mostly confused. I believed Alex's statement to be saying that because I wrote what I did, I was in favor of gay marriage. I see the logical inferences, but I thought they were applying them to me. Sorry if I read it wrong. See, I should stop trying to read what people are implying, and stick with the actual words. And yes, sometimes I do jump too quickly to conclusions, however it's something I've been trying to work on changing. The biggest problem is, I read what they wrote, and then I perceive that SOMETHING in my post made them believe x y or z about me. Maybe that's not the case, but it's usually where I screw up. So I search it and look for whatever gave them that impression. I didn't give my view on homosexuality, gay marriage or otherwise, because I find that is among the issues that tend to create very gray areas in terms of my religious beliefs, so I do not have solid yes/no answers in most cases about those sorts of issues. Nightowl >8# "It is understanding that gives us an ability to have peace. When we understand the other fellow's viewpoint, and he understands ours, then we can sit down and work out our differences." Harry S. Truman "Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." Timothy Bentley
Post #135,797 by ben_tilly 1/14/04 8:57:04 PM Reply	But I didn't - reading comprehension time Your description: Marriage is about two people who love and commit to each other, and want to spend their lives together. Facts and timeline: That description can perfectly fit a gay marriage, even though it says nothing about gay vs heterosexual. You were asked whether you are in favour of gay marriages. (Likely because what you said - probably accidentally - matches what gay marriage advocates say.) You said that you never said that you were in favour of gay marriage. I pointed out why the question was probably asked. You correctly pointed out that you never expressed a position either way on gay marriage. I'm pointing out now what I pointed out before. The statement as you gave it could fit gay marriage. I have no reason to believe that you intended this though. Now please review the thread, keeping these facts in mind. Hopefully you will realize that nobody ever said what your opinion was. You were asked, but you haven't chosen to give it. You've apparently interpreted others as having said something what your opinion was, but that didn't actually happen. The long and short of it is that your position on marriage bears an accidental resemblance to what advocates of gay marriage say. Alex asked the obvious question. You apparently misunderstood why he asked, and the rest of the discussion cascaded from that. Hopefully it is all clear now. Regards, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #135,799 by Nightowl 1/14/04 9:00:50 PM Reply	Re: But I didn't - reading comprehension time Now please review the thread, keeping these facts in mind. Hopefully you will realize that nobody ever said what your opinion was. You were asked, but you haven't chosen to give it. You've apparently interpreted others as having said something what your opinion was, but that didn't actually happen. The long and short of it is that your position on marriage bears an accidental resemblance to what advocates of gay marriage say. Alex asked the obvious question. You apparently misunderstood why he asked, and the rest of the discussion cascaded from that. Hopefully it is all clear now. It is, I get it now. I didn't even know that was what gay advocates say, honestly. But yes, I misunderstood, as I explained in my previous post to Scott. Sorry about overreacting, I just tend to worry that my words really DID imply what someone gleans from them. Does that make sense? Nightowl >8# "It is understanding that gives us an ability to have peace. When we understand the other fellow's viewpoint, and he understands ours, then we can sit down and work out our differences." Harry S. Truman "Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." Timothy Bentley
Post #135,867 by ben_tilly 1/15/04 10:26:07 AM Reply	Yes, but.... before reacting to what you think might have been meant, make it clear that you also understand what what said. That way if your guess is wrong, you won't draw nearly the same reaction. Cheers, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #135,803 by a6l6e6x 1/14/04 9:27:33 PM Reply	Bingo! Alex The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

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