Yep

Post #134,770 by Nightowl 1/10/04 9:31:16 PM Reply	Yep ...I'm meaner than anything that can be thrown at me. ... And that's exactly why you are so alone. Nightowl >8# "It is understanding that gives us an ability to have peace. When we understand the other fellow's viewpoint, and he understands ours, then we can sit down and work out our differences." Harry S. Truman "Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." Timothy Bentley
Post #134,773 by orion 1/10/04 9:40:10 PM Reply	I agree meaness tends to drive most people away. Except for the ones that feel they can change the mean person. I'd rather whine than be mean, any day of the week. Drives fewer people away. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #134,774 by Nightowl 1/10/04 9:43:50 PM Reply	Exactly And whining can be a temporary thing, also. Meaness, bitterness, all those things tend to become permanent behaviors. Everyone whines sometimes, even DeSitter, even though he doesn't believe it. I've seen plenty of posts where I perceived his comments to be whining. And please think twice before accepting medical or other advice from someone who couldn't bother to do something about his own medical issues before it was almost too late. The only person you have to answer to, Norman, is YOU, and no one else. Other than to God and perhaps your family, you are the only person you are accountable to. Certainly no one outside of there. Nightowl >8# "It is understanding that gives us an ability to have peace. When we understand the other fellow's viewpoint, and he understands ours, then we can sit down and work out our differences." Harry S. Truman "Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude." Timothy Bentley
Post #134,812 by Ashton 1/11/04 7:58:11 AM Reply	!! And that's exactly why you are so alone. You were born 'alone' and shall die 'alone'. No two persons experience this illusionary-world identically. Few will look deeply enough to accept that solitude is a Necessity, if you are ever to learn What you are. (A most unPopular idea in the 24/7 noise culture) It may be comforting to believe otherwise, and it is certainly a popular comfort. No book or pharm-chem profit-leader will substitute for Experience of yourself. Yet, that is so rare.. I don't know what Norm's specific meds do (but I've sampled a few alkaloids, and can guess some of it). Norman will work it out or he won't - but he will still leave as he came into this illusion. To tell anyone otherwise is.. euphemism. (A really Popular thing in Murican culture, that.) To fear solitude is to fear Life. This may explain briefest of all: what is most-Fucked in Murican culture and its shallow religiosity -- but only, if you find out for Yourself. (You could.. do that, Norman. What have you got to lose? except the nameless dread: and that you could get rid of, once and for all.) Ashton
Post #134,845 by orion 1/11/04 1:16:30 PM Reply	You don't know me you only know what I have posted. I am so much more than my posts led you to believe. I do not fear solitude, in fact I do require some time to myself without the family or friends. I cannot exist like that all the time, so I need some time with family and friends. Family is important, so are friends. They can help you out and you can help them out. Imagine if deSitter and I did not fight in the forums. I could download and give him CDRs that he cannot download on his dial-up, and I can go to Karokee nights with him and attempt to try and sing. Instead he drives me away with his meaness. We haven't sent each other emails in quite some time. Last I knew I was buring SuSE 8.2 CDRs and W2K SP4 CDR disk for him, but then he went ballistic on me. I am not sure what to do now. Do I dare attempt to meet with him, knowing how hostile he has been to me, or do I wait for a time that he can cool down? If in fact he does cool down? Are you telling me to become mean and drive everyone away from my life like deSitter has? No thanks, I'd rather take my medicines and see doctors for the rest of my life. There is no quick cure, deSitter has turned his depression into anger and hate, and that is how he deals with it. He has traded one problem for another. One of the worst things that can be done with a depression. The worst is sucidal tendacies. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #135,307 by Ashton 1/13/04 6:36:08 AM Reply	Re: You don't know me You have a good heart, Norman. You get shat upon when you embark on stuff you haven't done your homework on - like the bit about ID. And that's a red flag to those who find the same sort of weak arguments all around us, on many hot button 'issues'. At that moment - you sort of symbolize.. the rather sorry state of communication almost everywhere (at least that's my theory). Yours and deS's styles, interests are quite different - I don't know if you could cut each other enough slack. Yes, it would be nice if the both of you could lay off judgments long enough to have a beer and throw some darts. Neither of you is malevolent, and I think you understand that his proddings are not meant to injure.. it's good that you can see that. I don't know what it would take to "clear the slate". Maybe a time-out period, instead of any more one-sided 'debate' (?) It's also true that no one else can 'picture' how it is your mind is playing tricks on you -- but notice that when you are improving, people do / have congratulated you upon that. No, I certainly don't mean to suggest "that you become mean" (and if I did, why should you listen, anyway?) I greatly mistrust the extremely widespread doping (now extended to millions of children) as much as does deS. I believe this represents an abdication of patient, personal attention - that it is largely an economic choice, one which characterizes these times of massive Corporate greed in the ascension. That attention costs $, and I understand that you don't have those. I also cannot walk in your moccasins. I know someone else (who feels as I do re the ez-dope path) yet who occasionally needs some of this dope. She hates doing it, but she knows her own body, limitations, better than anyone (and certainly better than a rent-a-Dr. from some HMO). Perhaps you are in a similar fix. It is vital to pay close attention to dosages of any of these powerful drugs, so as to take the minimum dose as works; and as infrequently as you can get away with. If you can pay that much attention - I hope you will. That means keeping a record in whatever shorthand you can create. Only you can have enough patience to do that well. Meanwhile, you've probably got the more important part right - nobody here 'hates' you (or Owlet); simply - if you play in the debate game, you'll be dissed if you haven't the cards you bid.. y'know? Peace, I.

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