That's a universal religious problem

Post #132,813 by ChrisR 12/30/03 2:48:17 PM Reply	That's a universal religious problem People tend to believe what they want to believe. And they tend to believe what they want to believe about other religions. Catholic theological doctrine, like all forms of theology, is a closed system. It only makes sense when compared within the assumptions of that theology. From a theological standpoint, you can ask whether a specific doctrine (or dogma) is internally consistent. But it's somewhat hard to compare different theologies with each other. The Catholic theology starts from the premise that the 12 Apostles spoke the truth about Jesus Christ (there was not a New testament until some years later, so scripture could not have been the original authority). Protestant doctrine holds that the original Apostles are the authority and that the New Testament is the best source for determining dogma. Catholic and Orthodox hold that the teaching was conveyed through the church and the bishops, and that this line of authority holds true. The Catholics ultimately unified around the bishop of Rome (aka the Pope). Orthodox hold that each Bishop is an authority as long as that person remains true to tradition. Oddly enough, this line of secession is not merely a Christian issue. The split between Sunni & Shiite Muslims is similar. The Islamics of the Sunni tradition hold that the writings of Mohamed (sp?) are the sole authority (much as the Protestant holds to the Bible). The Islamics of the Shiite tradition hold that one of Mohamed's cousins (i think it was a cousin?) carried a sort of apostolic tradition. It's why the religious leaders in Shia are considered authorities, while the Sunni's denounce their authority. The Shia would be closer to the Orthodox in this case, in that the religious authorities are closer to bishops, with no correlary of a central authority bishop like the Pope. Anyhow, just a few religious tidbits.
Post #132,816 by deSitter 12/30/03 2:52:08 PM Reply	Re: That's a universal religious problem Isn't the Protestant/Catholic schism more a matter of politics? The Pope inherited the Emperor's political status, and many were not happy with that in the northern lands. -drl
Post #132,818 by ChrisR 12/30/03 2:57:15 PM Reply	Yes and no Politics was a definite cause of the schism, in that Rome was both a religious and poltical force. Many of the German lords didn't like cow towwing to the Roman poltical structure, so they happily accepted the reformation efforts of Luther. Although pride would prevent it, most Catholic theologians would have to admit that Luther spoke the truth about the Church. Unfortunately, the response of the CC at the time was the Counter-Reformation which was the worst response imaginable (and the doctrine of infallibility was a direct result of this time period).
Post #132,819 by JayMehaffey 12/30/03 3:02:51 PM Reply	The poltical side is also similar In both cases the split occured in part because the existing centralized religion became excessivly corrupt. This sparked a backlash movement that had to find authority and place faith in something other then the central church. The Islamic side was never as centralized as the Christian side, but they let themselves become a tool of the corrupt and unpopular government of the era. Of course, the Catholic church was a major government in and of itself, with a list of problems that would take a book to list. Jay
Post #132,820 by deSitter 12/30/03 3:06:46 PM Reply	Re: The poltical side is also similar Now that the Jews have a definite political structure, I suppose we can expect a similar schism to appear in that religion. For all I know it's already happened. -drl
Post #132,862 by Arkadiy 12/30/03 5:50:31 PM Reply	Jews went thorough this long ago This is not the first time that Jews had a definite political structure :) I am not quite sure what battles happened back then, but the end result was: all truth is in Torah, but Torah cannot be properly interpreted without a huge oral tradition coming from Moses via Aaron, his sons and discipples and so on. So it seems that Jews managed to sintethize Protestantism and Catolicism. -- "It\ufffds possible to build a reasonably prosperous society that invests in its people, doesn\ufffdt invade its neighbors, opposes Israel and stands up to America. (Just look at France.)" -- James Lileks
Post #132,873 by JayMehaffey 12/30/03 6:35:06 PM Reply	Probably happened multiple times Major splits in the Jewish religion have happened many times, but often the only reference we have is the Torah itself and it is by no means an unbiased source. Nor does it tend to record anything but the religous aspects of the disputes, even though many of them obviously had geographic, poltical or other significant aspects. Evidence suggests that the Christian religion itself was split off because of such a dispute. The movement that spawned the Christian religion became a major movement in Isreal because the population was angry with the way the leaders and high priests where selling out to the Romans. Once again this was a religious / poltical dispute where a significant portion of the population turned away from the previously accepted central authority. Jay

Welcome to IWETHEY!