Post #13,258
10/14/01 9:48:22 PM
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Re: This might sound tough but ....
At times like these - we have to work out a course of action that is the best we believe we can do in terms of neutralizing threats, then act ...
The propaganda is always a win-lose & lose-win alternating battle - it is *never* likely to be a win-win.
So once a course of action is committed - we have to batten down & go with it - leave it to our side's propaganda machine to score whatever hits & counterpoints they can & we just listen to the good news as long as there is some.
Sympathy for the innocents is very fair but already too many people are forgetting the horror of what was inflicted on the airplane passengers & the innocents on Sept 11th, that started this situation. I know it is little comfort but at least the Afghanistan innocents caught in the accidents in the bombing war, were not intentionally targeted, and despite any propaganda to the contrary that *does* make a difference. It doesn't mean we want it to happen (not like the loud-mouthed protesters in these militant places who call for the murder of *anyone* just because they can be called American.
These protests seem to say - Hey Americans, we can get *muderously* furious at you but if you get angry at any fellow muslims us we will get even madder at you. We really don't need that on our TV screens night after night even if it is occuring. We know the world is full of hostile repressed people & we *don't* have to wear their problems as our fault.
Fact of history is that todays best decisions can always turn into tomorrow's worst choices & this happens because the world is full of such a diverse lot of peoples & ideas that it comes with the turf of being human.
The best any government can do is manage their current choices & deal with each set of consequences that will inevitable come from some of yesterday's choices. The only way I can see the problem diminishing is with the continuing spread of open communications, learning to understand our neibours, promoting world trade such that there are opportunities for people to live in self-respect. But I have no doubt there will always be the lunatic fringe who want to destroy their own deamons by projecting them onto some place like the US.
Cheers
Doug Marker
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Post #13,275
10/15/01 2:35:01 AM
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Never suggested pacifism (!)
WTC demands *some* action as well as lots else.
Just that: to ignore the necessity of clever rebuttal, language-tailored anti-idiot propaganda - instead concentrating mostly on mere military logistics: is, I believe, to grievously err.
As to an earlier comment you made on the general lines of how (expectedly) loaded are many caricatures of the Taliban, I'd say that - even thus far - there are some rather detailed and compelling illustrations of the 'life of women' under their rule. Enough of these to corroborate.. enough (for me). We have no need to artificially demonize these admins - it comes out of their mouths on Tee Vee interview, as well as via other sources, some veiled for survival.
However well or poorly we manage the propaganda war, AFAI can see, it is irrelevant What 'religion' they claim justifies their atrocious behavior:
We shall owe no apologies for numbers of dead - provably administrators - of such a regime, wherever found in course of next events. Most are not even Afghani, as we have discussed here.
That Hawkish enough?
We could do both that AND see to the tons of food, coming in right behind the tanks - we are *innovative* or at least claim to be. Calling off the war to supply food - does not signify the abandonment of the fed folk to the Taliban admins, just delay. There are only weeks in which to move this food, or be blamed for causing the starvation over the winter..
(Our Propaganda for now and next! Communication.. with various as do not wish to communicate? we can tackle later)
Ashton
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Post #13,284
10/15/01 5:55:46 AM
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Re: Trouble with the devil is
When ya kill the 1st one, then next one often turns out to be meaner, nastier, dirtier etc: etc:
Afghanistan has a queue of devils lined up to take over after Taliban. 'n before them it was the alliance, then Nazjibullah (sp) then the ruskies. (hmm they seemed nice afterall (grin)).
All I ask now is that noone sends me there to supervise them after this lot go.
I know where I don't belong - Cheers Doug
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Post #13,415
10/15/01 4:44:10 PM
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Amen.. er salaam, effendi :-\ufffd
I too possess a 'list' containing many more things as are unlikely to work, than - any imaginations of what might 'work' (for our usual definition -- instant solution to 1000 years of ingrained hostility)
As a mammal ancestor observed.. never enter bear's den with honey on hands. Or perhaps, although the Earth is larger than the Moon, it is farther away..
A.
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Post #13,509
10/16/01 2:44:51 AM
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Your Touchy Feely Bullshit Doesn't Work Any More
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Post #13,513
10/16/01 2:57:18 AM
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Obviously yours isn't working either.
The trouble with imagining you've got a handle on it all - is that there's no one to go to for counselling, since no one could be as wise as thee. Best find one ready & able to tell you to go fuck yourself; if too nice - you won't hear anything.
A.
That's your last freebie for prof. advice this quarter.
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Post #13,516
10/16/01 3:04:48 AM
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Hey,
..at least my experience is honest. Is yours?
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Post #13,536
10/16/01 4:13:44 AM
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Heh.. are you asking
me to say, "Look.. I'm Honest!" ?
Tell me what's wrong with that sentence, smartass.
A.
(And the experience of every bigot and fanatic is also 'honestly theirs')
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Post #13,579
10/16/01 11:45:48 AM
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Hey, I'm honest.
Honest I am.
Have you ever seen me suck up to anyone?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
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Post #13,560
10/16/01 10:11:30 AM
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Nah...
...his experience is all a lie.
Mine too.
We're just deluded.
Thats cool, though...since we're deluded...we muddle about in complete ignorant bliss of our delusion.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #13,615
10/16/01 3:11:32 PM
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But.. my delusions are nicer than your delusions_________:-\ufffd
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Post #13,617
10/16/01 3:21:58 PM
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Natch ;)
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #13,504
10/16/01 2:16:29 AM
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B52s - Love Shack
I got me a bomber that's as big as a whale and it's about to set SAIL!
"Apartment for rent - wall to wall carpet bombed."
Before pic - desert plus rectangles.
After pic - desert minus rectangles.
Boom.
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