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New Idiocy
In case you forgot, there was a little lie about immediate danger from gas and bio-weapons. Did I use too many big words?

This is just the stupid conventional voice of the brainwashed, uneducated, easily-manipulated dolts that make up the electorate.
-drl
New What. He. Said.
New Regardless of the reasons they went...
...Saddam was who they were after.

So while you feel the urge...she had a valid point. Yours may be too...but no more so.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

It goes in, it must come out.Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's Law

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]

New Re: Regardless of the reasons they went...
The bottom line is that is wasn't strictly honorable what happened. This has been the case before in American history (Mexican War, very similar in some ways). I am not comfortable with it at all. I feel like I could lose my freedom, that all the freedom being doled out was taken from me. The whole episode makes me ill as an American, and the idea that patting the heads of "our boys" makes it all OK is wrong. Somehow the entire Jeffersonian idea was just trampled.

-drl
New Right or wrong...
...is a political issue. You disagree with the political aspects of the issue.

Patting the heads of "our boys" is something that should be done. They deserve it. Its a distinction that is important.

Having our boys come back to a post-vietnam style welcome would be a travesry that need not be repeated in our history. They didn't choose the mission...they fulfilled it...at great risk to themselves. They deserve that pat on the back.


If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

It goes in, it must come out.Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's Law

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]

New Re: Right or wrong...
The military is not automatically right. It is right insofar as it is used in a just cause with the wide support of civilized nations, and in accord with both precedent and principle.
-drl
New As a defined term..
...I'll agree with your statement.

I will not agree to smite the soldier for doing his sworn duty.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

It goes in, it must come out.Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's Law

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]

New And I say....
AMEN to that.

If soldiers aren't made to feel proud of what they do to protect us, and aren't treated well when they return and given the honor and respect they deserve, how can we ever expect more people to want to be soldiers in the first place?

Every soldier over there has been doing his duty to protect the US and that all by itself deserves our thanks and admiration.

Nightowl >8#
"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."

Comment by Nightowl {O,O}
New That is part of the problem
If soldiers aren't made to feel proud of what they do to protect us, and aren't treated well when they return and given the honor and respect they deserve, how can we ever expect more people to want to be soldiers in the first place?
is the entire problem with our foreign policy. I would much rather have a force composed of citizenry that were drafted, dont want to be there and are pissed about it. It would make the pol's much less likely to use the armed forces as pawns. When you have a core of highly trained career soldiers directing the great unwashed, their deployment becomes a last resort, not the first.
thanx,
bill
stick a spork in it.

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Re: That is part of the problem
I couldn't have said it better and won't try.
-drl
New Re: That is part of the problem
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but myself, I would much rather have a group of people who WANT to be there and WANT to fight for their country.

If there were people there who didn't want to be, I'd be more worried about them deserting or doing other things to not do their best to do their jobs.

Nightowl >8#
"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."

Comment by Nightowl {O,O}
New I see you dont understand democracy or history or freedom
If an army consists of citizen soldiers then the army will only be used to defend ourselves. A professionally staffed army is mercenary in nature and over time is staffed and run by people inimical to the freedoms of the average citizen. A quick referal to a book the rise and fall of the roman empire will indicate when a vital early rome that required all citizens to fight abdicated that to mercenary armies they collapsed into decay as the mercenaries were not loathe to attack the citizenry. Go back to sleep.
thanx,
bill
stick a spork in it.

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Re: Regardless of the reasons they went...
And when did I ever indicate at any point it was honorable???

I simply said that if you asked any soldier, and I know, cause I've talked to a few before, who was there, they would tell you their main objective was to get Saddam. Secondary objectives were findin WMDs, etc. etc. etc.

I don't see how you manage to always twist everything I post into garbage, but I'm cleaning it up.

Nightowl >8#
"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."

Comment by Nightowl {O,O}
New And I am pointing out
that the military derives its honor from the people and the government it represents, not for actions in themselves out of context. That may be OK for the honored veterans of the Wehrmacht but not for my army.
-drl
New And failing to see...
The entire point of my original post. It wasn't about honor, it wasn't about the reasons for the war. It wasn't about political issues.

It was simply about MY applauding the troops for a job well done, and relief that they had finally achieved what most of them considered to be their main objective.

I won't have you twisting this into anything more than it was.

Nightowl >8#
"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."

Comment by Nightowl {O,O}
New I think it was because our Commander in Chief
said that Saddam had WoMDs in a speech. Military Intelligence said he had them. Documents were faked to make it look like he was trying to get them.

True he did use them in the past against his own people. He sure didn't seem to have them any more, just empty warheads. If he did have them, they are cleverly hidden.

If the President said Saddam is a mad-man who is killing his own people and we have to go in there and remove Saddam from power for the good of the Iraqi people.

Instead he made Saddam a threat to the USA and the world by saying he had WoMD, and people like me believed that.



"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"

New Maybe so, but...
As I've already pointed out, that was not the point of my post. It had nothing to do with any political ramifications. :)

Nightowl >8#
"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."

Comment by Nightowl {O,O}
New Thanks.
...Saddam was who they were after.


So, this wasn't about WMD, harboring terrorists, imminent threats, etc. It was, after all and as I suspected, motivated by the conviction of a man who was simultaneously denied entrance to a Texas State College law school on academic grounds and accepted to Harvard Business School on financial grounds "that thar Sad-Dam tried to keel mah da-deeee, Eye's a gonna get 'im."

Nice to know our foreign policy is in the hands of adults.
bcnu,
Mikem

Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
New Uh excuse me...
I thought you weren't going to be replying to me anymore? I never said it was the ONLY reason.. and I said it was the soldier's mission, not Bushs'. Ask any soldier in Iraq and they will tell you they were there to capture Saddam.

Nightowl >8#
"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."

Comment by Nightowl {O,O}
Expand Edited by Nightowl Dec. 14, 2003, 09:49:00 PM EST
New Ibid.
bcnu,
Mikem

Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
     Saddam claimed to be arrested in Tikrit - (dmarker) - (29)
         This one got taken alive! - (Arkadiy) - (23)
             I agree completely - (Nightowl) - (22)
                 The only ones left to get - (hnick)
                 Idiocy - (deSitter) - (19)
                     What. He. Said. -NT - (rcareaga)
                     Regardless of the reasons they went... - (bepatient) - (15)
                         Re: Regardless of the reasons they went... - (deSitter) - (13)
                             Right or wrong... - (bepatient) - (7)
                                 Re: Right or wrong... - (deSitter) - (6)
                                     As a defined term.. - (bepatient) - (5)
                                         And I say.... - (Nightowl) - (4)
                                             That is part of the problem - (boxley) - (3)
                                                 Re: That is part of the problem - (deSitter)
                                                 Re: That is part of the problem - (Nightowl) - (1)
                                                     I see you dont understand democracy or history or freedom - (boxley)
                             Re: Regardless of the reasons they went... - (Nightowl) - (4)
                                 And I am pointing out - (deSitter) - (1)
                                     And failing to see... - (Nightowl)
                                 I think it was because our Commander in Chief - (orion) - (1)
                                     Maybe so, but... - (Nightowl)
                         Thanks. - (mmoffitt)
                     Uh excuse me... - (Nightowl)
                     Ibid. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                 Kewl! Got the answer to the question! - (Nightowl)
         Anyone notice - (lincoln) - (4)
             first thought I had, must be all that desert air -NT - (boxley)
             Nostradamus Prediticed It - (deSitter)
             I was thinking more of Fidel Castro - (orion)
             He looks like any number of the homeless - (a6l6e6x)

If I'm going to visit an exotic foreign land with L. Ron Hubbard or Jim Jones, I'll opt for the Scientology tour.
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