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New It is unclear to me what was being talked about
Your reading is very reasonable.

My reading for a higher figure is that it is the amount of money added to the system by having to deal with all of the various kinds of insurers as opposed to something like a single payer system. In which case you need to add in not only the amount of administration on the insurer's end, but also the extra administration that everyone else has to have to be able to handle all of the variations of forms, and plough through all of the "passing the buck" that different possible insurers do.

I could easily see someone reporting the higher figure and not making it clear exactly what they meant.

Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
New there is clearing houses for insurers
Used to support a medical package that downloaded all claims to a single point of contact daily via modem. 85% of the insurers would pool to the clearing house. The other 15% had to be done manually.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Agree. (And message for Thane)
Having to be familiar with a variety of forms is an additional cost. But the forms, at least for claim submittal, were/are largely the same. And there has been ever increasing work done to standardize XML forms across the industry. One company I am familiar with ([link|http://www.realmed.com|Real Med, Inc.]) built its company on the disparity among forms and the delays in receiving payments for services provided.

I'm not taking issue at all with the superiority of "single payer" systems. In my experience there is not a single aspect of the delivery of healthcare which is not better performed by single payer systems than by private insurers.

While I'd agree with your position that once all administration fees are counted, the total is higher than 16%, I cannot believe that any healthcare practitioner spends as much as 9% of his "take" on dealing with forms.

And Thane, getting Fee Schedules is very difficult business (those are considered trade secrets and are highly protected). The NCQA sells a report (the old ones used to be free, but apparently are no longer free) called HEDIS. Check out [link|http://www.ncqa.org|http://www.ncqa.org] for more info. I guess I didn't fully appreciate how much "inside info" I was getting during my years with HMO's. Another source of information would be Insurance Brokers. They usually know more about the insurers in your area than just their fee schedules. I'm not sure which state you are in, and state laws vary considerably. But check your state's Department of Insurance for information concerning Plan performance versus Medicare. Some states require a bunch of info (like % of Medicare Fee Schedule, C-sections/1,000, Beta Blocker treatment for MI patients, etc.) and some states require almost nothing. Almost all states require all healthcare insurers to report their profit or loss yearly.

HTH.
bcnu,
Mikem

Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
New Thanks, Mike.
     Percentage of insurance overhead in medical care? - (inthane-chan) - (16)
         0%. - (pwhysall) - (5)
             Oh, do go and bugger off, will you? ;) -NT - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                 Quote from my wife's doctor last night - (jbrabeck)
             you mean all those govt employees work for free? -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                 And your tax burden is SO much less, innit? :p -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
                     Have to pay for the high tech defense grid - (orion)
         I blame "Managed Care" - (orion)
         Straight poop. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
             Remembered where I got the 40%... - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                 I've been OOTL since 2k, but I'll get some for you. -NT - (mmoffitt)
             Question - (ben_tilly) - (5)
                 My figures were dated too. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                     It is unclear to me what was being talked about - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                         there is clearing houses for insurers - (boxley)
                         Agree. (And message for Thane) - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                             Thanks, Mike. -NT - (inthane-chan)

I promise you that if I am compelled to turn to the Dark Side on this issue you will come to yearn for the suave ripostes of CRConrad.
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