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New Car comparison
I am looking into the Honda Civic, Toyota Corrolla, and Ford Focus. Putting aside the price anyone have any opinions on the relative merits of the 3 cars?
New Well now...
Honda and Toyota retain value much better. Honda Civic is a target for theft becasue the kids like to hop'em up. Otherwise its a great car.

Toyota also a good car that will last forever if cared for properly.

Focus seems to be very nice and well powered...probably more hp in the focus than both of the others.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Ford's probably not in the same league.
The Focus is a good car that has had reliability problems - Car and Driver has liked it for several years. Maybe Ford has resolved the quality issues by now.

The Corolla is a good car. The 03 and 04 have a nice upright seating position and is pretty comfortable in the back. A friend has one, but I've never driven one myself.

The Honda Civic is a good car. The newer ones seem very plain to me, but mechanically the car should be top-notch.

The Civic and Corolla will probably drive differently. Civics usually are a little "sportier" than Corollas. You should drive each of them to see whether you have a preference. Either should be a very good choice. The Focus may be fine, and should be substantially cheaper, but unless things have changed recently you're taking more of a chance on the quality with the Ford.

[link|http://www.edmunds.com|http://www.edmunds.com] has lots of good information.

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Jap > American
The Focus is a nasty little piece of engineering. It's no good if you're tall, has horrible visibility out the back, and the 16V Zetec I drove had the world's notchiest gearbox and a clutch that was clearly designed to be used by faery maidens with a feather touch, rather than a six foot three engineer in a pair of size 13 steelies.

While I haven't driven the Civic, a co-worker had one for a long time and said it was one of the best cars he ever owned.

The Corolla has a bit of a reputation over here as an old man's car. Make of that what you will.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Honda or Toyota

My parents have driven Hondas since 1982, Mom's on her third Accord. They've all gone for well over 150k miles, Illinois rust being the major threat. I see 1980s, and occasionally 1970s models around California all the time. The clutch goes at about 100k miles, but otherwise they're champs.

\r\n\r\n

I've had a Toyota truck since 1993, now pushing 160k mi. Brakes, clutch, and an exhaust manifold leak, otherwise, no problems, still peppy, paint's holding up, and the interior's pretty clean. Will probably be driving it in another five years at this rate.

\r\n\r\n

Either of these. If you've got or are planning a family, the Corrolla's probably roomier than the Civic.

\r\n\r\n

Ford: no way.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
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What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
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New Re: Car comparison
What they said, though I'd opine that the Ford, whatever lessons learned - won't be nearly as reliable AW (after warranty runs out). Several of (my Honda sub-brand, Acura) have >200K miles not km and are still 'tight', no oil use etc. One has 300K+. But each model will have a couple items that can be watched-out for. You also didn't mention if buying new or used. Same deal, except: you'd want evidence that periodic servicing was really done -- never practical to rehab an abused [anything], at modern labour prices.

Probably the Civic handles better than comparable Toyota, generally. When I brought home someone's Corolla loaner, over familiar roads - found steering quite less precise, springing too soft for decent control in any emergency. No idea how a Focus handles.

If.. you go with Honda, one fillip I've learned (as a consequence of getting my car and sleuthing) - is: use *their* "fluids" - especially automatic transmission fluids. These have different lubricating and viscosity index formulations, and the difference is noticeable in shifting smoothness and .. per now many voices - longevity. (Skip fluid changes at risk of becoming a PHB.)

HTH

Ashton
New What is this thing you Earth people call "automatic"?
:-p


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New You haven't driven in LA traffic jams, have you?
I have a standard. I live in LA. I don't voluntarily take it into traffic jams. (Well I don't voluntarily go into the traffic jams around here either, but when I do, my car is not the one to take if there is any choice.) My wife agrees that it sucks for that. If I had a significant commute, I would insist on an automatic.

I have many co-workers that I have discussed this with. Many of whom were raised on standards. Some of whom own them. All agree that if you have a significant commute in LA, you want an automatic. Several comment that traffic jams they have been through elsewhere would have been fine with standards, but around here???

Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
New I blame by bad left knee on standard in the border line
Did that for too many years, I guess.
The best advice I've
found in the book "Thinking in Java", was to have a look at Python.
Marijan Tadin, on comp.lang.python
New automatics trannies
A Los Angeles traffic jam I can, and have, handled in a standard transmission. Where automatics shine is in certain traffic jams in San Francisco--say, bumper-to-bumper halfway up one of our steeper hills, where a four- or five-speed requires far more rigorous fontal lobe input than slow driving ought to, particularly when some arsehole with an automatic has pulled up to within three inches of your rear bumper.

These special situations apart I'm disposed to paraphrase (rather broadly) Truman Capote's dismissal of Jack Kerouac and sneer "That's not driving--it's steering."

cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New Treat the tailgaters as an opportunity...
... to save your leg a bit. Roll back the 3 inches and use their car as a nice prop. ;-)

That's a pet peeve of mine: people who have no clue that a stick shift on a steep hill requires a certain amount of rollback room, no matter how good the driver is. I've had people tailgate me up hills on snow-covered roads.

My main defense tactic is to start rolling backwards *before* the ass behind me gets it in his head to cinch up the slack. A few small bebops on the brake remind most people to leave the room. Some people quite satisfyingly freak out when they see the car in front of them rolling backwards without backup lights on...
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: automatics trannies
Yeah, but a manual can go down those hills with minimal braking, using low gear to control speed. This is a bigger advantage than the disavantage of rollback, which can be controlled by slipping the clutch slightly.
-drl
Expand Edited by deSitter Nov. 3, 2003, 10:23:24 AM EST
New I can leave mine in LOW for that maneuver. Next?
New Point
However an hour of bad LA traffic is far harder to handle than, say, an hour in the midwest.

Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
New Sitting still in smog is sitting still in smog.
It doesn't happen nearly as often out here, no, but when it does it's just as bad.

That said, from personal experience I think the traffic in DC is actually worse than in LA.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: Sitting still in smog is sitting still in smog.
LA traffic is depressing because you can get in a jam at 1 in the morning! The PCH was jammed at all hours last time I visited.

Worst traffic I experienced was in Chicago - huge city with not enough freeways.
-drl
New slushbuckets as opposed to honest gearing
liquid slushes around a box with 4 beebee sized pellets in a pacman track which determines which pack of cork fillers will jam together to force the tail shaft to spin at a predetermined rate.
Any better explaination will be gratefully co-opted
thax,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Straw-box issue in '03
I can hold mine in (or select) any old gear manually, I choose - with compression braking, etc. Any modern autos lock-up the torus quite quickly == no-slip ergo same or (yes) better mileage than stick. Myths from the early days of slush-o-matics persist, although there seem still to be many newish Murican auto-trans that have a hard time breaking 50K miles without a rebuild. {ugh} (OTOH My particular not-US model is known to go >200 K MILES if not mercilessly abused via dirty fluid, etc. At least one is at 300K on original.)

Final knell too - it can cost more now to fix a std. than an auto [!], at least here, and clutch replacement is a bear in too many designs, adding to the cost. Synchros seem to wear faster than all that stuff crammed into an auto-xmiss. Defies logic, that - but there you are.

As one who has owned most-all stds, I Love my 4-speed auto, even without many traffic jams as justification. It's also smart enough to change shiftpoints if I'm standing on it, and I can drop to 2nd at any speed - and have the xmiss shift right on down from 90ish at sane (but in that case: hi-RPM) points, as I brake. All-in-all, IMO best of both worlds. BUT

I wouldn't want one on any motorcycle, where the minute-feel of road surface is obv much more important.

My 3 NF


Ashton Manuel Fangio
New Explanation of the deal
As part of my compensation, the company will lease me a car for both business (commuting to work) and my own personal use, this is standard in Israel, it is a pure tax dodge, if they gave me the money for the lease of the car as part of my salary I would be taxed at a 60% rate, the car on the other hand is taxed based on a very low imputed value meaning the worker cames out way ahead). Included in this is maintenance, they are responsible for any maintenance and repairs (although of course I don't want to get stuck or have the car in the shop all the time). The are offering the choice between the 3 cars (the Toyota and the Honda cost me an extra 15$ a month). In reality, the choice is more which is a more fun car to drive.
New If it's about "fun", then the Civic wins.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
     Car comparison - (bluke) - (19)
         Well now... - (bepatient)
         Ford's probably not in the same league. - (Another Scott) - (1)
             Jap > American - (pwhysall)
         Honda or Toyota - (kmself)
         Re: Car comparison - (Ashton) - (14)
             What is this thing you Earth people call "automatic"? - (pwhysall) - (11)
                 You haven't driven in LA traffic jams, have you? - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                     I blame by bad left knee on standard in the border line - (FuManChu)
                     automatics trannies - (rcareaga) - (6)
                         Treat the tailgaters as an opportunity... - (admin)
                         Re: automatics trannies - (deSitter) - (1)
                             I can leave mine in LOW for that maneuver. Next? -NT - (Ashton)
                         Point - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                             Sitting still in smog is sitting still in smog. - (admin) - (1)
                                 Re: Sitting still in smog is sitting still in smog. - (deSitter)
                 slushbuckets as opposed to honest gearing - (boxley)
                 Straw-box issue in '03 - (Ashton)
             Explanation of the deal - (bluke) - (1)
                 If it's about "fun", then the Civic wins. -NT - (pwhysall)

It's not a pooping bell!
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