Post #121,819
10/18/03 11:20:20 AM
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Not enough
You are either misinformed or have an anti-narcotic agenda.
All narcotic based painkillers are addictive. All of them
have differing levels of tolerance generation. Different
people react differently to the amount of drug VS its
ability to relieve pain.
The Dr. is supposed to calculate a formula based on the
patient's weight and the historical pain-relief value
of the narcotic.
[link|http://www.ctclconsult.com/pdrdruginfo/html/42200430.htm|http://www.ctclconsu...html/42200430.htm]
Search for "INDIVIDUALIZATION OF DOSAGE".
At that point the Dr. has a low and a high value of what would
considered an appropriate dose. He is supposed to start
at the mid-point and wait to see if it worked. It is up
to the patient to tell him it did or it didn't. There
is no guarantee that it worked at all. The Dr. can
double or quadruple the dose on a moments notice. If the
patient is too timid to tell the Dr., they SUFFER!
The Dr. will then escalate to the next powerful level
of pain killer if the previous did not work. The major
steps are Codiene, Hydrocodine (Vicodin), then Oxycodine
(Percodan/Perocet). There is a balancing act of how much
pain relief VS side effects, and then respiratory depression
/ death. But it takes a LOT of narcotic to get to that
level. Far more than merely kill all the pain and let
you sleep through it.
The formulation of the various narcotics with aspiren
or tylenol is supposed to give a different type of relief
(reduce swelling, COX2 inhihibition, etc) and lessen the
amount of narcotic needed to achieve the relief needed. But
they are FAR more poisonous to people when taken in large
doses. Which means that doubling or quadrupling the dose
would be fine except then you get too much aspiren or tylenol.
Certain narcotics build up a tolerance faster than others.
You need more and more do achieve any level of pain relief,
and they wear off faster. Vicodin is one of the WORSE offenders.
It give great relief on the 1st dose, a little on less on
the next, etc. So people will almost IMMEDIATELY up the dose
and feel guilty about it. And then people like you talk about
them.
Ooh, 3 at a time! Nasty addict! And other things too!
3 is NOTHING.
You could eat them like candy with almost no effect after
you spent 10 days on them. Ask Rush Limbaugh. Real addicts
will eat 100 a day.
If she is in pain she should be on something else. Long release
OxyContin is oxycodine in a formula that give consistent level
of drug in the bloodstream, avoiding the peaks and drops. It
got a bad name because addicts abuse it. WHO CARES? They would
abuse ANYTHING. Instead, Drs. are now afraid to give to people
who NEED it.
Let's turn off the internet, child molesters are on it!
Same logic.
Drs. are more inclined to prescibe Vicodin rather than Perocet
because (in this state, NJ), the patient is required to pick
up the paper prescription for Perocet but the Dr. can call in
the Vicodin. Which means in the middle of the night, when the
office is closed, you either drive to you Dr's house or go
to the hospital. In my case, we doubled the Vicodin and I got
the paper prescription for the Perocet the next morning.
I'd push the Tylenol or Motrin, unless he has side effects to those.
THE KID HAD MAJOR SURGERY!
They cut and sewed up muscles and tendons, and anchored the
tendon to bone.
What the hell do you give your kids if they break a bone or tear
a muscle?
Stop whining kid, have an aspiren.
As you watch your kid go white, start shaking and sweating,
when they can't sit up due to the pain.
You'd sit there and hand them a tylenol.
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Post #121,822
10/18/03 11:29:05 AM
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Re: Not enough
I was astonished by the uselessness of Vicodin. The first dose was moderately effective - the second was hardly effective at all. By the time I finished all 20 I might as well have been eating breath mints. I am sitting there is just agony after eating 4 of them at once - nothing. Whoever invented this drug was a sadist of some kind.
Also agreed about mixing this and that - people generally don't understand that liver-destroying acetominophen poisoning can happen by taking 2 extra strength Tylenol (500mg each) 6 times in a day, that is, once every 4 hours - if you are in pain and can't sleep, what are you going to do? Wait until 6AM for your next dose? The people who make Tylenol must have a damn good lobby.
-drl
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Post #121,949
10/20/03 9:49:48 AM
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Had to double-check who wrote that
That almost sounded like Ashton, except with grammar. Anti-drug zealots should spend a week with someone in real pain, see the effect of their demonizing.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #121,957
10/20/03 10:33:04 AM
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Re: Had to double-check who wrote that
Yeah, God forbid it should be your Mom.
-drl
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Post #121,959
10/20/03 10:33:36 AM
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AMEN, Bruther!
jb4
"There are two ways for you to have lower Prescription-drug costs. One is you could hire Rush Limbaugh's housekeeper ... or you can elect me President."
John Kerry
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Post #122,032
10/20/03 2:04:53 PM
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I'll take that as a compliment
since I usually consider Ashton an example of brilliance mired in uncomprehensively poor writing.
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Post #122,037
10/20/03 2:18:01 PM
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It must take a certain state of mind...
...because I, for one, find Ashton's essays quite readable, and his grammar, rather than tortured, seems like he is stretching a gross and inelegant language into saying more than it would be capable of in lesser hands.
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #122,038
10/20/03 2:18:31 PM
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Or it may just be we're doing the same drugs.
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Post #122,039
10/20/03 2:19:27 PM
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There is a reason your handle is "inthane"
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Post #122,097
10/20/03 8:38:58 PM
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Re: It must take a certain state of mind...
Would that I were capable of uniformly achieving what you have phrased so kindly -- but on occasion, the collective consciousness will give any of us a break ;-)
IMO most all topics involving homo-sap behaviour cannot be treated as logical derivations from some 'principle', as so many would hope (and some even believe). Hell, you can even get a degree in Belief of That!
Glad to hear that you can follow a sentence with more than one subordinate clause -- it's certainly the way my brain functions; it is bloody well Not a serial-processing kind of thing, however cutesy two-state logic pretends. (Besides, my logic is at least tristate: Yes/No/Maybe.) Chopping up interrelated thoughts into these little byte-sized thingies scans rilly well, but it is effete; it gives an impression that an idea really is parseable into its elements, even re humans (!)
Hah.. what a concept.
Oh well.
I write for the clarification of my experiences, and for any few who find it close-enough to match their similar ones. (Nor am I the first to put it that way) Believing that all answers can at best evoke only better questions, I eschew the textbook imparting of data, leaving that for those with an aim to fix a config file or repair a carburetor. (Frankly I never read textbooks as literature, but I guess that can be an acquired taste, if there are no books around.)
Cheers,
Ashton, all illegible and irrelevant
(That's what killfiles are for - to protect one from the inconvenient and {ugh} non-Standard. It is a perfect concept For Our Time\ufffd)
:-\ufffd
IWETH Extralinguistic Yammerers LLC
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Post #122,103
10/20/03 9:24:36 PM
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Re: It must take a certain state of mind...
You guys miss the point about Ash - he's just using an inferior medium, langauge, to express subtle ideas - many of which are intermingled.
So you read it interlaced - rapid scan followed by rapid scan instead of one continuous scan.
-drl
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Post #122,112
10/20/03 11:41:49 PM
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Comparison.
Ashton strikes me as someone who really wants another dozen punctuation characters.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
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Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #122,226
10/21/03 4:11:23 PM
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Thou sayest
And very well.
Ever hear Victor Borge's lampoon of ~ audio "punctuation" (in which he uses noises to insert ", !, ?, etc.) ?? 'Funny' - yes, but.. he was too Great a teller of stories , not to have meant also, something serious: IMnsHO.
Writing, one needs the skill of an Oscar Wilde .. to indicate well, "raised eyebrows" or, "yeah, in a Pig's eye" - and various artifices which spoken language manages well-enough, but written-language: demands virtuosity which few possess, most of the time (when we're not On a Roll).
I am hardly the first to hold this view. Poetry, for just one ex. - activates quite Different parts of the (mere) brain than prose, when actually listened-to; and 'mind' -- we haven't the foggiest about That's relationship to 'brain'. QED.
See.. I believe that the 'emotional mind' is *not* 'the intellectual mind' (though spatial configuration, overlapping of 'domains' etc - are not the Point) It doesn't matter which space-time 'each' inhabits: still IMhO they Are 'separate'; their interaction is the most complex of all which we cannot ever really 'parse', and forgetting that.. leads to such Gross misperceptions of the entire world as (say)
Imagining that 'Facts and facts' exist; imagining further that these can prove or 'Prove' something -!- thus {alas} creating . . .
My Gramma, the marlowes of the world, the prototype Neoconman and: Killing for Peace, plus all the other familiar forms of Language Murder - rampant in our times, and the basis *now* for whole Corporate Meeja Networks! Even.
Rest case.
(I don't expect my prosody to 'work' either consistently or for all forms of 'listening'. And only vanity ever imagines that you can edit your own stuff - very well.. ;-)
Cheers,
I.
BTW.. I feel that if we do not find some new ways to help Language to 'protect itself' [?!] from this rampant Murder, now ever-so popular -- the species Shall commit Seppuku by any of the well-known present techno- means. There may well be better ways to 'say' this, but I am quite sure of what I feel about the situation: rightly or incorrectly.
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Post #122,096
10/20/03 7:54:25 PM
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Re: Not enough -?- or not the right one for citizen-x?
The Dr. is supposed to calculate a formula based on the
patient's weight and the historical pain-relief value
of the narcotic. One pernicious aspect of the tenets of allopathy is - that there is no perceived need to even propose a study of (say) "reasonable sub-groups" - ie to discover if there can be certain "body types" (a term which has been used elsewhere) and note their quite different manifestations of symptoms to "the same putative 'disease'" - as well as their quite different responses to treatments commonly offered. That there are such differences among us is easily noticed, if one is at all looking. The root problem is obv -- what criteria seem reasonable to apply for a first-pass, while trying to characterize these "sub-groups"? Other approaches to health (not phrased as "treatment of disease", usually) indeed explore these sub-groups, assigning various names to each; deem the matter not even arguable.. yet the concept is so foreign to AMA dogma as often to be ridiculed if it is even raised. Since this is as relevant to pain control as to any idea of 'cure' -- the result is what you describe: ignorance of proper drug choice, dosage and all the subtleties beyond these obvious ones. I believe that this omission adequately explains why even "the good guys" - doctors who manifestly do pay attention, actually listen to patients and attempt to tailor their nostrums individually -- may fail, as well. Cure? Other than an expansion of awareness of Other models of human functions, I don't see any, in the US. And the odds against the vast momentum of the present model here.. can be measured by the countless profitable parasitical trades, from insurance to massive pharm-chem. But there are alternatives of which I've heard; first-person hearsay across the years. And there's my small sample of remedies tried and which "worked for me" (which is when I began paying more than cursory attention). What there is not: is any 'official' Interest in pursuing these - for aforementioned obv reasons. And when you Are in severe pain: is not the time when you begin such an interest or investigation. One specific example I can mention is Arnica root - taken just after a trauma: I have heard first-hand reports re auto accident injuries, and before: as in pre-surgery and related (as it affects, can reduce, the pain experienced following that and the wearing-off of the anaesthetic). Once again: not everyone might find its effects as dramatic as some I have heard. But at least it's damn unlikely to harm you. Wish it-all were simpler.. But it' snot Ashton AE again,
"things should be made as simple as possible.. but not simpler."
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