Medved clarifies the just/unjust war distinction.

Post #12,060 by marlowe 10/6/01 10:33:21 AM Reply	Medved clarifies the just/unjust war distinction. [link\|http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/medved1.asp\|Pointless rage vs. moral war] His arguments boils down to: it's the end, not the means that counts. It's a tad slippery, but I haven't seen anything better. Regardless of whether the end justifies the means, a good end is morally superior to a bad one. Survival is a good end. Mindless slaughter is a bad one. And yes, we're talking about mindless slaughter as an end, not a means. A quotable quote: The truth about our current enemy may prove painfully difficult for Americans to accept. Islamic fundamentalists don't want America to change; they want America to die. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
Post #12,074 by brettj 10/6/01 1:52:08 PM Reply	The Extremist motto: "kill all infidels" ... and extortion is just another means to reach this end. It sounds extreme but unfortunately we have discovered how extreme these terrorists really are. After they kill all infidels then they will likely focus on killing all Shiites. Nice folks, eh? No wonder Iran is scared of these fundamentalists. They have turned their back on the Fatiha: "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate ..." Where is Allah's mercy and compassion in light of the murders on September 11th?
Post #12,090 by Ashton 10/6/01 6:33:54 PM Reply	Heh.. remember all that sanctimonious Israel-bashing? The truth about our current enemy may prove painfully difficult for Americans to accept. Islamic fundamentalists don't want America to change; they want America to die. bluke and others have been asserting the very same Point re their now decades-old rock+hard-place location. Perhaps we newbies shall have a bit more empathy for the quality of their decisions (yes too: the mistakes among them) .?. next. As we are utterly unprepared newbies who dismantled our on-ground intelligence service - for er "cost-saving", staring at Windoze satellite displays from x miles up: Surely it is evident that we shall be making quite a few 'mistakes' ourselves, next. We had best hope that they are small ones. No one here yet, has listed the thousands of ways in which any open society is vulnerable, and especially ours. (Fortunately - we don't need that list posted) Amazing how er 'less stupid' the Israelis have suddenly started looking - especially their Airline.. D'Oh: think we oughtta make the doors outta steel? or save weight with the papier-mache? Should we continue to pay Min-wage for cheap security folk, and give them the usual intensive training course (2 minutes + a blurry Xerox sheet) - expecting personnel turnover ever day - or, do it right? Management decisions in both cases & others (?) WTF, we know that answer. Yep - let's er 'private-sector' all govmint functions; those bizness folk have just the Right priorities, all right. I say: let's put a CTO in every airplane, maybe one from your company? Ashton 20/20 hindsight is such fun :-\ufffd
Post #12,279 by Brandioch 10/8/01 2:30:58 PM Reply	I'll disagree, slightly. Remember, we aren't dealing with a single individual here. There are thousands of individuals, each with a different grudge and different level of fanatacism. We simply can't stop someone who is willing to kill himself to get to us. Instead, deal with this in a civilized manner. Through legal proceedings and such. Arrest, trial, incarceration, etc. But military retaliation will only give another generation a reason to become bombers.
Post #12,280 by deSitter 10/8/01 2:38:21 PM Reply	True, ..but a conquering war with the help of China and Russia will work, and only that. We have made it possible for one committed asshole to blow up an entire city, and must live with the unpleasant consequences. The only way to deal with these people and their sponsoring states is to Marshallize them. Their people would be much better off in the end, and we would have firm friends in China and Russia and a truly global economy as a result - no more worry about nuclear war for the forseeable future (until the cozy relationship gets boring, but maybe there will be seed colonies on Mars by then). We must impose a Pax Americana/Sinea/Russiana. I'm serious.
Post #12,307 by Ashton 10/8/01 5:02:39 PM Reply	Don't see argument here. Indeed there are many disaffected, each with reasons and also unreasonable views of America and Muricans. The larger group is that which the already committed would catalyze. It appears that Dubya et al sorta get this - may they continue to realize how much a propaganda war this is, and how little a conventional one.. Israel - mistakes, warts and all - has to be the most experienced in daily living out the constant nearby presence of those who: rejected many forms of past possible agreements toward accommodation, at least one of these including redrawing of the map to near pre-67 standards. The stated POV of their most vociferous opponents is: utter annihilation of Israel and contents. (No one knows how an honest plebiscite of actual Arabs as call selves Palestinians, would go: we hear only from the bellicose 'leaders' via self-appointment and intrigue.) We here, may be at the beginning of comprehending how it is - to be in such a position, to retain humanitarian values AND survive too.. that's all. A.

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