Post #119,826
10/2/03 11:59:48 AM
|
Some serious second thoughts
Last night I sat down with John about this job and all the worries and concerns I had. I also went into some detail with him about things the woman said, and why they worried me. He agreed I had some really valid concerns, and helped me come up with a list of questions to ask her if she calls and offers the job. (She still hasn't, which is actually a relief at this point).
I want to share those concerns with you and see if you feel also that I am right to be hesitant about accepting.
By the way, I am a data-entry clerk type person. I've never done anything extensive with a data-base system EXCEPT on an Apple IIE. Keep that in mind as I list the concerns.
1) When I asked about the data entry job itself, she told me it was a high-stress environment because of the deadlines. I told her workload was not a problem, but were the people stressful. She said no, not really, that she was the most stressful one.
2) The position is at a Technical school in the Admissions Control center, and it runs the Admissions operations of 13 campuses, meaning ALL admission info comes to that building. She listed numbers of "submissions" that had to be put in that meant very little to me. I didn't know if I had to do all so many thousand of them a day, or if there were others helping, and if I had to stay to finish if the deadline wasn't met. None of that was addressed, which was mostly my fault. I felt off-balance because the interview was not very structured (more on that later).
3) The other job she described that was "possibly even more up my alley" was described VERY vaguely. She said that very shortly, they were going to be changing over to a new system, and she needed someone to compile ALL the data from ALL the campuses and and integrate it into the new system. At first it sounded like something I could do, (i.e. gather info), but after deep reflection, if she is asking me to integrate a number of data-bases, and suppose they are different systems, or something, I have no knowledge of something like that, and do not feel qualified for it. When I asked her if it was like paperwork, she said no it was all electronc data.
Note: New system really scared me. Did she mean she was changing from Access to something else? Or to another version of Access? Or did she mean I had to create another whole data base system for this change? John pointed out that this sounded more like she wanted a Data-base systems operator, not a entry clerk.
4) 4 days a week is a lot more than I bargained for, in reentering the work force. She talked about 30 hours a week at times which is only ten less than 40, which is FULL TIME and I do not feel anywhere NEAR ready for full time or anything close to it. She also seemed surprised when I told her I would drop the class to take the job if that happened, because I could not handle both. She wanted me to try and work 9-12 and make it to class from 12-3 on Monday, and there is NO possible way I can manage that. I can't work till 12 and be in class at 12 and parking takes another 15 minutes at least. I intended to drop the class if I got a good offer, I never intended to try both at once. I also intended to start lightly, a couple, three days a week maybe, not this much at once. And I got the feeling it could get more than 30.
5) I also have serious qualms about starting a job without the knowledge I need to accomplish it. I did not intend to learn Access on the job under pressure with deadlines looming. That was not my plan, I wanted to get a job doing something I already had a basic knowledge of, and I've learned Access isn't that. I also just wanted to be a data entry clerk, or ENTERER, not a data base manager. And he said IF she wants me to do data base management, $7.00 p/h is WAY too low. He even wondered if $7.00 is too low for just my skills period? I am gonna put my resume up after this post and ask you all to tell me what you might think I'm worth? I have absolutely no concept of it.
6) There are some logistical problems too, I didn't find out about lunch hour, and it takes ten minutes to warm up my car to go anywhere. I would be smack dab in the middle of MAC traffic on a main road, something I had hoped to avoid, coming home, and I also don't really know the dress code, because she said two things, but nothing specific. If I have to dress up more, I don't even have enough clothes for 4 days a week. Granted, we can go buy some, but it's not as easy as you might think, for me.
And finally, 7) the interview was very unstructured, which sorta rattled me. I didn't have things going in the order I was used to, thus many questions, such as lunch, and system they were using, went unanswered, etc. And when it was time for me to ask questions, someone walked through the room (we met in a large lunchroom type place, where people walked in and out), and waved to her, and then came over and interupted and they talked a few minutes, and by the time she got back to me, I didn't remember what I wanted to ask about. I usually have a list of questions to ask, but I was so rushed preparing Monday night, I didn't manage that, but it wouldn't have helped, because these questions were about things she said, such as "what new system" etc.
Anyway, those are my major concerns. John said to write a number of questions down, which we did last night, and ask her IF she calls to offer it, and he sad if she does not address those questions or whatever, I can turn it down if she offers it.
I feel like I SHOULD take this job if offered, which really scares me, because one of the things that is supposed to be different, is that I can choose what FITS. I can turn anything down that doesn't feel right, and accept only what does. I was so stunned that she liked me at all, and that the interview went well at all, that I was feeling pressured to accept even though it wasn't sounding like something I knew how to do. John said that the objective has to be kept in mind, and the objective is not just to work, sorry. The objective is to find a job again that I can be HAPPY in, and that I can DO, and that doesn't stress me, and if I take a job that doesn't accomplish that, there's no point.
Anyway. Those are my thoughts, any input?
Nightowl >8#
"I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
|
Post #119,835
10/2/03 12:26:45 PM
|
My input - it's about tradeoffs
How much effort is required? How much sh*t do you have to put up with? And how much do they want to pay you in exchange?
My ideal job is one where I get paid much much more, for doing less and less, and never have to see the boss (especially when I'm out on the golf course).
|
Post #119,839
10/2/03 12:51:56 PM
10/2/03 12:53:40 PM
|
My Resume
(Minus personal info)
NAME
ADDRESS LINE 1
ADDRESS LINE 2
PHONE
OBJECTIVE
To obtain a part-time position as a word processor, data entry operator, or general clerk for a St. Louis County based organization or business.
EDUCATION
Associate of Arts, July 1988. St. Louis Community College at Florissant Valley,
St. Louis, MO. Communication Arts: Creative Writing
SKILLS
- Word processing/Data entry using various programs including MS Office, Word Perfect 5.1, Lotus 1-2-3, VI, and many others using both Windows and Macintosh systems
- Experience with Windows XP, 98, 95, and 3.11
- Experience with Print Shop, Click Art, and other graphic design
- Accomplished receptionist with excellent telephone skills
- Efficient and well organized record keeper and file clerk
- Conscientious, creative, and innovative problem-solver, flexible when necessary to adapt to fast-changing work priorities and new technologies
WORK HISTORY
August 1996-November 1996.
Data Entry Clerk, National States Insurance, St. Louis MO.
Entered policyholder data into system, assembled policy files, prepared mailings.
October 1995-February 1996.
Part-time Clerk Typist, Suburban Business Products, St. Louis, MO.
Regularly contacted contract holders for copy-count data.
Contract filing for Service Department.
WORK HISTORY (Continued)
April 1993-October 1995.
Part-time Clerk Typist II, Department of Psychology, University of Missouri-St. Louis, St. Louis MO.
Departmental receptionist. Additional duties included test entry, preparation of instructional materials and syllabi for student distribution, filing of confidential student records and other information, mail distribution, and other varied responsibilities. Recognized as one of the most accommodating staff members for students with disabilities.
August 1992-April 1993.
Administrative Assistant, David Marshall, Division of Sculptor?s Guild Ltd., St. Louis, MO.
High volume numerical and alphabetical data entry, telephone duties, filing of photographs and mounted photos for display sample books, and other varied duties. In-house courier responsibilities.
October 1989-September 1990.
Clerk Typist, McDonnell Douglas Corporation, St. Louis, MO.
As part of the Secretarial Service Department, acted as a floater throughout the company to provide: data entry and word processing, phone support, filing of blueprints, part numbers, diagrams, equipment manifests, plans, and designs. Provided in-house courier service for files, graphic files, memos, and correspondence.
October 1989-November 1989.
Temporary Clerk Typist, Veterans Administration Hospital, St. Louis, MO.
Data entry for Surgical Service on a business Macintosh computer.
August 1988-May 1989.
Work Study Student, University of Missouri-St. Louis, St. Louis, MO.
Clerical Assistant, Department of English. Did word processing, filing, inventory, mailings, and some receptionist duties. Also created and worked on the Gateway Reading Project database for Dr. Jane Zeni.
WORK HISTORY (Continued)
February 1987-May 1988.
Work Study Student -Word Processor, St. Louis Community College at Florissant Valley, Counseling Department, St. Louis, MO.
Worked on an Apple IIE and IBM, kept logs, produced degree information sheets, and various other duties, including moving of Dept head and organization of his office setup.
February 1987-May 1987.
Work Study Student -Traffic Assistant, St. Louis Community College at Florissant Valley, KCFV Radio Station, St. Louis, MO.
Checked and maintained on-air logs, requesting corrections as needed. Secretarial assistant to station manager, doing filings, mailings, and newsletter layout. In addition, prepared, edited and broadcast regular newscasts, kept music organized, and wrote and recorded Public Service Announcements and station promotions.
VOLUNTEER AND COMMUNITY SERVICE
1999-2003
Assisted my church by creating bulletins, programs, flyers, and other posters and graphic pictures
1992-1995
Worked as an annual volunteer for the KETC Channel 9 (PBS) Auction, entering data into their on-line system
Excellent references and a complete job history available upon request.
Edit: tried to repair structure, not much luck.
"I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
Edited by Nightowl
Oct. 2, 2003, 12:53:40 PM EDT
|
Post #119,849
10/2/03 2:04:03 PM
|
Stretch yourself
You never know what you are capable of until you try it.
But before you start, put down in writing things that will tell you, "I'm over my head, time to stop" and stick to that - if you are not handling it, bail.
Now you can go to the job knowing that they think you can do it, and knowing that you know how to protect yourself. If you succeed this time, then you have learned something good about yourself. If you aren't yet ready, you didn't lose much. And if you discover your own limits but they found you useful, you will be in a better position then to get them to agree to something less ambitious.
With that decision made, you can now take things one step at a time.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
|
Post #119,875
10/2/03 5:20:58 PM
|
You won't know unless you try
I remember when I first had to learn Access. I was a PC Specialist not a Database Administrator, but I picked it up pretty quick because Access was easy to learn and used GUI for designing forms, reports, queries, etc. Much easier than DBase. The users found it easier because I could put GUI on the forms, and use drop-down combo boxes to select things and populate those combo boxes from a table. No more typos, just select the combo box. Access reports could easily be exported to RTF or Word format and emailed. I even learned how to use MAPI to send out email when something needed attention. But I was also a Developer, learned to program in High School and College, so I picked up Visual BASIC for Applications really fast, being a VB programmer already. Back then it was just called Access BASIC.
Most databases can be imported to Access really easily. Dbase and Clipper use DBF files, which Access can import. Access can read Excel and Lotus spreadsheets too. You can even use ODBC to connect to just about any Windows based Database and link the table and write a simple Append Query to copy the data into an Access table, and then delete the linked table when you are done. The only problem I can see is if it is a custom written Database and not a commercial one. I doubt they would be doing that, it requires a lot of money to support such a database from the company that wrote it, or having developers on staff that can support it. If they have developers on staff to support it, they can export the data for you into a text file, which Access can read and import into a table. Most databases have an export option to export into a text file. So all you really need to learn on the other databases is how to export the data. Just ask for a reference manual and look up the chapter on exporting and importing. See if it can be exported to a file that Access can work with.
For Database Administration work, $7 an hour is very low. Ask her how often you have to import tables and do other Database Administration work. It might just be to get the new database off the ground and get the data imported from the old one. Or maybe once a week to get the data from other campuses and merge it into the main database.
If I was allowed to go back to work, I might take the job myself. I know I can handle it given my extensive background in Access. The only tricky part would be to make the daily quota of Data Entry records, that would be stressful for me too. I know I could teach you enough about Access to get the job done.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
|
Post #119,915
10/2/03 9:07:51 PM
|
Re: You won't know unless you try
But see, that's not the point. I'm sure I could learn the program, probably. But my point is, I didn't intend to take a job where I didn't already have a basic knowledge of what I needed to do, and learning a new program on a rushed basis, (which is what this sounds like), and getting it all right in time for the changeover, well it sounds like more than I intended to handle at this time.
As John put it, he doesn't want me coming home stressed 4 days a week, and I see that ahead if I accepted this. Fortunately, she still hasn't called so maybe it's a moot point now, and I'm immensely relieved if that is the case. The object remember, is not to just go back to work, but to work in an environment that I can handle and isn't too stressful, and to be happy there. This just sounds like more than I am prepared to do right off the starting gate.
Does that make sense? I have learned a great deal from it, though, I have learned a lot has changed in 6-7 years. Maybe data base operator (which used to mean an entry person) means manager now, as in able to create and run them more than enter data. These are things I need to figure out.
Plus, I put my resume up here to see if anyone could give me an idea of what someone who made roughly $7.00 per hour that long ago should be making now. Ank thinks its probably more in the 8-9 dollar range.
I still intend to learn Access, honest, but I don't think doing it under these circumstances will be a very good situation for me. Plus, I really just wanted to enter data, that is my favorite job, and maybe I need to clarify that differently now, because the field of data entry seems to have changed.
Like I said though, she hasn't called and the place isn't open tomorrow, so maybe I can breathe and relax and set my sights on the next option.
Ben suggested, "stretch myself" but see, I'm doing good just to be considering working, and stretching myself is going much farther than I'm ready for. You know some of the background, Norman, this is a major breakthrough to even have TRIED for a job, and my counselor recognizes that. But 30 hours a week is just way too much, for the starting gate. That combined with what they seem to want, is overwhelming.
I'll still ask her the questions if she calls, but if she doesn't call, then I was smart enough to realize this was a little over my head and out of my league, and learn the lesson from it to get more experience with the program before trying another data entry option.
Or does anyone even just DO data entry anymore, where they hand you stacks and stacks of papers and you input the data? That is really what I want to do most.
Nightowl >8#
"I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
|
Post #119,970
10/3/03 10:44:39 AM
|
Data Entry jobs
Well at the law firm I worked at, they had Data Entry Clerks that entered data into Access Forms, or directly into the tables. The Developers did the Database Administration for them. That was my job, import data from another source, update the queries, fix the reports and forms, etc. I got paid way more than $7/hr for that, more like $24/hr for Programming, Database Administration, Tech Support, Documenting of Applications, Report Writing (Database based Reports in Access and Crystal Reports), and other misc things that always came up like training people, etc.
The problem as I see it, companies don't want to pay someone $24/hr anymore and would rather have the entry level people do some of the same tasks for a much lower pay. So they give some of the Developer or Database Administrator duties to the entry level people. That way they can eliminate the $24/hr position. Some companies are offshoring the jobs elsewhere were people in other countries can do the job for pennies on the dollar, or replaced by H1B Visa workers earning about as much as you are or a little bit more.
All I can say is that if it is raising red flags for you on stress, you might want to consider a different job. Learn Access anyway, at least it can give you a good idea on how Databases work and you can work a job with Access in the future some time.
I have worked jobs where I was given time to learn the new technologies. In 1994 I was handed a shrink wrapped box of Access 1.0 and was told to learn it, or else. So I installed it, started reading the manual, and made a few sample databases, much like the one I had you made to teach you a simple example. Sure I was afraid that I might not be able to learn it in time, but I learned it and was able to build my skills and get pay raises. I co-developed a Technical Problem tracker with a coworker and we were able to fix problems faster, keep track of them, and email our bosses a report each week. I even made a Network Management database for the Network Administrator so he wouldn't assign duplicate addresses to different boxes. No more network configuration issues, except when Engineering copied an existing hard drive to another one and created dupes on the network, that was fun to track down. :)
I also dove into Oracle in 1996 with a Federal Contract job for the US Army, picked up some Unix skills too. I found that it was easier to learn since I knew SQL from Access and other databases like SQL Server that PL/SQL was easier to learn because of that.
At the Law Firm I had to learn ASP and Crystal Reports, I aced those.
Always learn something new as technology keeps on changing.
Remember that sometimes you don't always have to take the first job offered to you. Learn from it and maybe the next few jobs will be more appealing. Maybe you can ask for $8 or $9 an hour at your next job interview, and maybe they can offer a 20 hour work week and Data Entry without DBA work.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
|
Post #119,975
10/3/03 10:54:54 AM
|
Re: Data Entry jobs
Well at the law firm I worked at, they had Data Entry Clerks that entered data into Access Forms, or directly into the tables. The Developers did the Database Administration for them. That was my job, import data from another source, update the queries, fix the reports and forms, etc. I got paid way more than $7/hr for that, more like $24/hr for Programming, Database Administration, Tech Support, Documenting of Applications, Report Writing (Database based Reports in Access and Crystal Reports), and other misc things that always came up like training people, etc. Yeah, see? I mostly wanted to be a data entry clerk. So the first thing that tells me is maybe my resume should be changed from "Data Entry Operator to Data Entry Clerk" that could be one of the confusions, since operator seems to have changed meanings. All I can say is that if it is raising red flags for you on stress, you might want to consider a different job. Learn Access anyway, at least it can give you a good idea on how Databases work and you can work a job with Access in the future some time. I intend to learn it, honest. My book should be here today, and I'm excited about learning the program better, but you're right, there are several red flags about this job, so I'm probably not going to accept it. Bear in mind, she hasn't offered it either, and it's Friday, and I got the impression she was going to call right away if she did, so... maybe she realized the limitations too and decided against me, which makes us both smart. :) I might like a job with Access down the road, doing more than data entry, but I still don't want to start at 30 hours a week, regardless. I'm trying to ease into this, not jump in with both feet and possibly drown. John is still willing to help me, and he said we could both learn it together, because he doesn't know it either, although he has a much better grasp of data base logic, being a programmer. :) I have worked jobs where I was given time to learn the new technologies. In 1994 I was handed a shrink wrapped box of Access 1.0 and was told to learn it, or else. So I installed it, started reading the manual, and made a few sample databases, much like the one I had you made to teach you a simple example. Sure I was afraid that I might not be able to learn it in time, but I learned it and was able to build my skills and get pay raises And there was a time in my life once where I was up for that sort of a challenge, but this isn't it right now. Maybe again down the road, when I get more confidence and have worked again and been ok first, but not now. I've never failed to learn a new program, yet. I always worry there will be a first time though, guess that's normal. Remember that sometimes you don't always have to take the first job offered to you. Learn from it and maybe the next few jobs will be more appealing. Maybe you can ask for $8 or $9 an hour at your next job interview, and maybe they can offer a 20 hour work week and Data Entry without DBA work. That's what Ank says too. He says I'm feeling compelled to accept something that I feel is way over my head, just because it might be offered. He keeps telling me "you're in the driver's seat, YOU have the right to accept or reject any job" and that's all new to me, having been used to having my ex-fiance PUSH me into whatever job was offered, no matter what. So I'm trying to feel positive about it regardless, and learn what to change from it to make the next one better. :) And I do appreciate everyone's input here. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
|
