H1B visas getting cut

Post #118,559 by admin 9/23/03 10:52:34 AM Reply	H1B visas getting cut [link\|http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/32966.html\|http://www.theregist...tent/7/32966.html] Unless some lobbying groups step up their pitch to sway Congress before Oct. 1, the annual limit on H1-B visas will plummet to 65,000. This is a massive drop from the 195,000 visas that have been available in recent years. The slumping tech economy is one of the main reasons for the cut, as legislators hope companies will hire unemployed US workers before looking for foreign talent. And from news.com: [link\|http://news.com.com/2100-1036_3-5080288.html\|http://news.com.com/...36_3-5080288.html] But Patrick Duffy, a human resources attorney for Intel, said finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was critical to his company's future. "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the future for the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the advanced education, skills and expertise we need," he said. Elizabeth Dickson, director of immigration services for Ingersoll-Rand, speaking on behalf of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said: "In the near term, we simply must have access to foreign nationals. Many of them have been educated in the United States. By sending them home, we are at best sending them to our own foreign plant sites, and at worst to our competitors." Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #118,564 by inthane-chan 9/23/03 10:54:26 AM Reply	Translation: "It's not enough that we're fucking you overseas by sending your jobs there - we still want to make you compete with that same slave labor in your own job market." In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others? Therin lies the true measure of a man.
Post #118,566 by folkert 9/23/03 10:56:20 AM Reply	Just like WE have to now! -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [insert witty saying here]
Post #118,614 by pwhysall 9/23/03 4:25:34 PM Reply	Welcome to the global market. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #118,947 by deSitter 9/26/03 2:58:50 AM Reply	Re: Welcome to the global market. The Phillipines are being drained of "talented" nurses - overheard today in the hospital while on elevator, about the "new group" of them being unable to understand English well enough to fit in. This is talent? No, it's slave labor. The nursing shortage is as big a lie as the developer/engineer shortage. Nurses are carrying twice the patient burden they once did. Megacorp hospital constellations and amoral insurance companies are responsible. Globalization is the ultimate crock. Capitalism is dead. The real question is - when did business become about stupid pointless profit margins alone, without any context for the thing being sold? That is what leads to job loss - getting one person to do the work of two, for half as much as one. -drl
Post #118,973 by pwhysall 9/26/03 7:35:05 AM Reply	Werd. In answer to your final point - it appears that the western world now has fully entered the religion of the Almighty Buck, first commandment "Thou shalt have no master before me." I'm guessing that we've been sliding into this since about 1945, to pick a completely random date. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #119,006 by orion 9/26/03 10:12:03 AM Reply	You mean Weird yes it has been an evolution of businesses to worship the Almighty Dollar and only care about Profit Margins. Since 1945, or whenever, it has kept getting worse. Also Accountability in Management is almost non-existant, Managers make the same mistakes over and over again and lay off the people under them for those mistakes. Hardly anyone lays off the Upper Management, and even if they do, they got that Golden Parachute payoff. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #119,016 by jb4 9/26/03 10:27:37 AM Reply	In this vein...a question for Peter Peter- Isn't there some kind of a law in the UK that states that if you fuck up a company, you cannot run another for like 5 years or something? I seem to recall an oblique reference to such a thing in a couple of Register articles, but they assumed that the (UK) reader knew what they were talking about, so they didn't explain any further. Can you elucidate? jb4 Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium: Jobs and Growth: Just Wait. John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
Post #119,003 by orion 9/26/03 10:08:14 AM Reply	H1B Nurses My wife is a LPN, they talked about H1B Visa Nurses in her Nursing Magazine. They claim there is a shortage of Nurses and they must hire them. But the H1B Visa Nurses are taking jobs away from Local Nurses for a lower pay. Nurses are overworked, not just doing the job of two people, but three or four. They are given too many people to care for, and as a result cannot get to them as fast as they can. Ring the bell, and you'll have to wait 5 to 15 minutes or more for a Nurse because she/he has about 12 to 20 other people to take care of. Sometimes they have an Orderly or Patient Specialist help out, but they aren't trained in Medicine to remove/change IVs, give shots, or any of the other stuff a Nurse can do. It is really hard for a patient to get care from a nurse who doesn't understand what the patient is saying. Also hard to give the nurse orders when they don't understand enough English to complete the task. Sometimes they just ignore the patient because they didn't understand what the patient said or what the doctors orders said. When that happens, mistakes are made. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #119,051 by deSitter 9/26/03 11:42:51 AM Reply	H1B Reporters Lou Dobbs was interviewing Congresssissy Adam Smith (from M$ district in WA) and brought up the H1B issue. When Smith launched into the usual drivel about H1B, Dobbs got visibly pissed off - a stretch for him as an almost unnaturally calm person - and pointed out that CNN had H1B reporters running around! Smith basically mouthed the same drivel I've heard from Gephardt in responses to 2 letters spaced over 2 years. Comment from the other side: [link\|http://indianewsweek.com/0307021/article14.htm\|http://indianewsweek...021/article14.htm] [link\|http://sulekha.com/petitions/petition.asp?cid=34\|http://sulekha.com/p...tition.asp?cid=34] This is blatantly untrue. H1-B and L1 Visas have powered the stupendous growth in the American high-tech sector in particular. The H1-B Visa provided skilled professionals that powered the Information Revolution led by America. American economy was slumping in the late-80's and early 90's due to the Japanese Manufacturing prowess. The Information Revolution that powered America's growth and its leadership status was enabled to a large extent by H1-B professionals -- irrespective of whether they had a part in the Silicon Valley startups or established organizations like Microsoft and NASA. America should not abolish the H1-B Visa law that helped mitigate crucial skill shortages. Even today, India graduates several times more Computer Science professionals than America. Several of them work far harder than their American colleagues -- given the fact that they are immigrants in an alien country wanting to prove themselves. Yeah right. How many Indian flags are planted on the Moon? -drl
Post #119,055 by hnick 9/26/03 12:08:03 PM Reply	Love this line... "Even today, India graduates several times more Computer Science professionals than America. Several of them work far harder than their American colleagues" Possibly as many as a dozen, ya think?
Post #119,074 by jb4 9/26/03 1:03:05 PM Reply	caught that, too................ROFL! jb4 Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium: Jobs and Growth: Just Wait. John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
Post #119,132 by deSitter 9/26/03 7:32:01 PM Reply	Re: Love this line... I am amazed at the lack of comments on the unmitigated gall of this petition. -drl
Post #119,169 by hnick 9/27/03 8:17:11 AM Reply	Since when is unmitigated gall suprising anymore? I would be rather astonished if there were not such petitions around. They have a fucking lobby to buy a chunk or our congress creatures. Why wouldn't they push it as far as it will go. No point in going quietly, you know
Post #119,024 by inthane-chan 9/26/03 11:02:12 AM Reply	Yeah, I'm aware of this. Hell, I'm aware that I'm damned lucky to live here, and have a job that pays decently. That doesn't mean I'm going to pucker up and kow-tow to the motherfuckers who are screwing me - that's the reason they can get away with that shit. I'll stop bitching about it when the H1B program gets extended to CIEIOs. In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others? Therin lies the true measure of a man.
Post #118,595 by jb4 9/23/03 2:00:04 PM Reply	Tell fscknuts Pat that he isn't looking in the right places! With the likes of Ben and Todd unemployed, that fucking moron just isn't looking....or can you say "red herring"? (I knew you could...) jb4 Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium: Jobs and Growth: Just Wait. John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
Post #118,635 by a6l6e6x 9/23/03 8:38:54 PM Reply	Ben is employed now. Alex "Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." -- last words of Pancho Villa (1877-1923)
Post #118,810 by jb4 9/25/03 10:41:08 AM Reply	So I heard in another thread. There is some good news around, then. Now if we can just get [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=118756\|Todd] something, then I'd be more optimistic... jb4 Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium: Jobs and Growth: Just Wait. John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
Post #118,652 by ben_tilly 9/23/03 10:32:41 PM Reply	My unemployment was pretty much voluntary But I agree that it isn't hard to find decent people already in the USA. Furthermore I still like my suggestion of removing the H1B limit entirely. Make the importing company pay a substantial sponsorship fee for the H1B person to enter. And give the hired employee the right (which can't be signed away) to switch to another job as fast as they can land one. You see, making companies swear that they can't find a qualified American just encourages them to lie. Make their incentive to be honest, and see what happens... Cheers, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #118,606 by orion 9/23/03 2:32:15 PM Reply	My heart bleeds for the MegaCorps If they have a lack of talented people, why not send some of their own people to college or training to get up to date skillsets? It is, after all, tax deductable to fiance your employees educations. IT and Engineering changes every few years, you need to keep the education and training going. Hire those good enough to do entry level work and then educate and train them. If they pass, promote them to higher level jobs. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #118,650 by boxley 9/23/03 10:28:23 PM Reply	Dunno I got dropped into application support 2.5 months ago. It is websphere iplanet corba mq C++ and scripts gluing it all together. I know a little C++ and scripts. I currently run a team of 10 looking to me for answers, directing traffic for customers, setting up test plans etc. No training, no courses and I am at the speed of those who have worked the system for 6+ months intensely, and only 2 knowledge experts in house do I need on occation. Of the 10, guys, 6 are off shore guys 4 americans. Of the 4 Americans 2 are adequate 2 are going to catch up with me in weeks. Of the offshore guys I have a star,2 goods and the rest barely adequate. Training and schooling are only going to teach you how to learn. The rest is up to you. Either you have the ability to think yur way thru the language, problem application or you dont and all the training in the world will not help you. A real star I know would get a new gig with a new language on Friday, pickup all the books needed and be ready to be productive on Monday. It is as much art as science. Everyone in this biz has a niche that they can excell in and understand where they will never be more than barely adequate. If I needed a table guy tablizer might be a good choice. If I needed a driver developer I would not call him. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #118,713 by orion 9/24/03 1:44:45 PM 9/24/03 2:05:45 PM Reply	Having a natural gift something that you say cannot be learned, you either have it or you don't. Why would H1B Visa Workers have it more than Natural Citizens and Greencard holders? I would think that the distribution of such gifts would be the same. Or could it be that H1b Visa Workers who have the gift are willing to work for less pay? Hence a US Citizen or Greencard holder who wants a larger salary, may be seen as "Overqualified" or rejected for some other reason? I've worked with people who have the gift, I think I had it myself once until I got too sick to work. Edit: Not that I am against H1B Visa workers, I just think that there should be reasonable limits. It should go back to pre-1997 levels in my opinion. If not, then we are taking too many "Talented" workers out of the other country's jobpool. Case in point of India, who complained of losing billions because a lot of the people they trained and who have talent have move out of the country to work in the US. India needs talented people too. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"* Edited by orion Sept. 24, 2003, 02:05:45 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #118,818 by gdaustin 9/25/03 10:57:14 AM Reply	India is getting them back... I guess the problem I have with this is that U.S. Megacorps want to have it all ways. When the U.S. economy was humming, they wanted hundreds of thousands of "qualified" IT workers in the country "now". And they wanted them willing to compete with Americans, and work for less. Now that they've learned our jobs and the Internet has become ubiquitous, these same Megacorps want to send these guys home (and recruit even more of them), where the cost of living and standard of living are 1/5 of what it is here. It's a friggin' race to the bottom. How can we get the cheapest X? No concern for people or lives or families. Our economy is faltering because our formerly white-collar high-paying jobs are being exported en-masse to other countries, to people (who may or may not know what they're doing) who will work for 1/5 of what we do, work any hours, and pretend to be happy about it. Durable goods sales were down 2.2% this month? Why? Noone wants to buy a car, home, fridge, or any big ticket item unless they're SURE they're going to have the job to pay off the debt, or that their job is safe enough to buy that stuff out of savings. It would not surprise me if banks raise interest rates for most loans soon, on the premise that Americans, in general, are now "bad credit risks", because of the general economy, and the probability of one losing his/her job in the next 3 years. Glen
Post #118,865 by ben_tilly 9/25/03 2:19:42 PM Reply	You should read "Wealth and Democracy" by Kevin Phillips "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #118,872 by orion 9/25/03 2:37:08 PM Reply	Re: You should read "Wealth and Democracy" by Kevin Phillips Website here: [link\|http://www.wealthanddemocracy.com/\|http://www.wealthanddemocracy.com/] For more info, and excerpts from the book. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*

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