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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / Religion, Philosophy, Metaphysics Forum / Do ants understand their position in the universe?
Post #11,833
by brettj
10/4/01 8:48:20 PM
10/4/01 9:24:28 PM
Reply
New Do ants understand their position in the universe?
("

A friend of mine asked me that when I mentioned our little debate here.

Does the analogy apply to human beings?
Collapse Edited by brettj Oct. 4, 2001, 09:24:28 PM EDT
Do ants understand their position in the universe?
(" A friend of mine asked me that when I mentioned our little debate here. Does the metaphor apply to human beings?
Collapse All History
Post #11,849
by boxley
10/4/01 10:21:36 PM
Reply
New they are as certain as we are
What is a user? You mean userid isnt the same as uid?, gid? whats that? I dont understand "ask the requestor to send a non formal email request for ftp access? whaddya mean dean?
Halp Iam drowning in Bovine Fecal Matter!!!!
Bill
Post #11,860
by Another Scott
10/4/01 10:46:18 PM
Reply
New Ants can be regarded as cells, an ant colony as an organ.
An interesting discussion of this is in chapter 11, "Prelude...Ant Fugue" of 'The Mind's I" by Hofstadter and Dennett. They specifically compare ants to neurons and an ant colony to a brain.

pp.183-184:
Anteater: There occurred an incident one day when I visited with Aunt Hillary [an ant colony] which reminds me of your suggestion of observing the symbols in Achille's brain as they create thoughts which are about themselves.

Crab: Do tell us about it.

Anteater: Aunt Hillary had been feeling very lonely, and was very happy to have someone to talk to that day. So she gratefully told me to help myself to the juciest ants I could find. (She's always been most generous with her ants.)

Achilles: Gee!

Anteater: It just happened that I had been watching the symbols which were carrying out her thoughts, because in them were some particularly juicy-looking ants.

Achilles: Gee!

Anteater: So I helped myself to a few of the fattest ants which had been parts of the higher-level symbols which I had been reading. Specifically, the symbols which they were part of were the ones which had expressed the thought "Help yourself to any of the ants which look appetizing."

Achilles: Gee!

Anteater: Unfortunately for them, but fortunately for me, the little bugs didn't have the slightest inkling of what they were collectively telling me, on the symbol level.

Achilles: Gee! That is an amazing wraparound. They were completely unconscious of what they were participating in. Their acts could be seen as part of a pattern on a higher level, but of course they were completely unaware of that. Ah, what a pity -- a supreme irony, in fact -- that they missed it.


As such, your question can be regarded as being similar to asking whether a neuron is aware of its place in the universe.

:-)

Cheers,
Scott.
Post #11,873
by brettj
10/5/01 1:17:31 AM
10/5/01 2:01:44 AM
Reply
New Are you implying that we are merely neurons on the internet
... making up a collective brain?

Duh ")

Communication is a powerful tool.

It can turn mountains into mole hills.
(Every mountain and hill brought low.)
Expand Edited by brettj Oct. 5, 2001, 02:01:44 AM EDT
Expand All History
Post #11,879
by brettj
10/5/01 2:28:23 AM
Reply
New After re-reading your last statement ...
"As such, your question can be regarded as being similar to asking whether a neuron is aware of its place in the universe."

The neuron may not be aware if isolated, but if connected it has a much greater chance of gaining awareness, does it not?

(whatever awareness means .)
     Atheism And The Burden Of Proof - (pwhysall) - (44) - Oct. 3, 2001, 01:36:27 AM EDT
         Personal experience. - (static) - (1) - Oct. 3, 2001, 02:00:31 AM EDT
             Sorta. - (pwhysall) - Oct. 3, 2001, 08:27:03 AM EDT
         Logic Chopping - (deSitter) - (6) - Oct. 3, 2001, 02:26:29 AM EDT
             Says *you*. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Oct. 3, 2001, 08:25:41 AM EDT
                 Indeed, sez I. God is personal. -NT - (deSitter) - Oct. 3, 2001, 11:17:27 PM EDT
             Why 9/12? - (wharris2) - (2) - Oct. 3, 2001, 01:20:02 PM EDT
                 Simple - (deSitter) - (1) - Oct. 3, 2001, 11:16:40 PM EDT
                     Don't forget - (rsf) - Oct. 4, 2001, 01:31:20 PM EDT
             Data Point - (pwhysall) - Oct. 3, 2001, 07:21:39 PM EDT
         It's been (un)done - (Ashton) - (9) - Oct. 3, 2001, 06:10:56 AM EDT
             Science can measure anything - (Brandioch) - (8) - Oct. 3, 2001, 12:32:42 PM EDT
                 Faith... - (inthane-chan) - (7) - Oct. 3, 2001, 12:39:48 PM EDT
                     "Take the red pill..." :-) -NT - (static) - (6) - Oct. 3, 2001, 10:23:14 PM EDT
                         You know, I'm really beginning to hate that movie. - (inthane-chan) - (5) - Oct. 4, 2001, 12:27:48 PM EDT
                             Sad but true. - (Brandioch) - Oct. 4, 2001, 01:21:34 PM EDT
                             I know what you mean. - (static) - (3) - Oct. 4, 2001, 10:39:49 PM EDT
                                 *SMACK!* - (inthane-chan) - (2) - Oct. 5, 2001, 12:33:22 PM EDT
                                     I didn't say I *agreed* with doing that! - (static) - (1) - Oct. 7, 2001, 03:08:39 AM EDT
                                         DeSmacking. - (inthane-chan) - Oct. 8, 2001, 12:45:35 PM EDT
         Not here to 'save" you what you are or believe is up to you - (boxley) - Oct. 3, 2001, 10:20:32 AM EDT
         I assert that pwhysall does not exist. - (marlowe) - (12) - Oct. 3, 2001, 11:51:04 AM EDT
             spent 10 hrs with a certified psycho doing the same thing - (boxley) - Oct. 3, 2001, 01:12:48 PM EDT
             The burden of proof lies where it always does - (pwhysall) - (10) - Oct. 3, 2001, 02:24:41 PM EDT
                 Just want to make sure I understand your POV - (tseliot) - (6) - Oct. 3, 2001, 03:05:03 PM EDT
                     Yep. - (pwhysall) - (5) - Oct. 3, 2001, 03:10:29 PM EDT
                         I think I see the confusion. Maybe? - (brettj) - (4) - Oct. 4, 2001, 08:52:50 PM EDT
                             Nothing here 'annoying' - (Ashton) - Oct. 3, 2001, 11:52:59 PM EDT
                             Nah, that's not it. - (pwhysall) - (2) - Oct. 4, 2001, 01:34:49 AM EDT
                                 The Bible. - (static) - Oct. 4, 2001, 10:47:35 PM EDT
                                 Re: The violence in the OT - (brettj) - Oct. 5, 2001, 02:57:35 AM EDT
                 The alleged pwhysall shifts his ground. - (marlowe) - (2) - Oct. 3, 2001, 05:02:25 PM EDT
                     What ARE you talking about? - (pwhysall) - (1) - Oct. 3, 2001, 05:05:11 PM EDT
                         You're asserting things all over the place. - (marlowe) - Oct. 3, 2001, 06:19:07 PM EDT
         So you're saying the burden of proof exists for those who... - (marlowe) - Oct. 3, 2001, 11:53:37 AM EDT
         Scientific reason you dont believe - (boxley) - (3) - Oct. 3, 2001, 01:17:48 PM EDT
             s/gene/meme -NT - (tseliot) - Oct. 3, 2001, 01:29:57 PM EDT
             Heh.. you may be as close as any come - (Ashton) - (1) - Oct. 3, 2001, 06:08:34 PM EDT
                 gladly ripped off idea couldnt remember who to - (boxley) - Oct. 4, 2001, 12:03:46 AM EDT
         Do ants understand their position in the universe? - (brettj) - (4) - Oct. 4, 2001, 09:24:28 PM EDT
             they are as certain as we are -NT - (boxley) - Oct. 4, 2001, 10:21:36 PM EDT
             Ants can be regarded as cells, an ant colony as an organ. - (Another Scott) - (2) - Oct. 4, 2001, 10:46:18 PM EDT
                 Are you implying that we are merely neurons on the internet - (brettj) - Oct. 5, 2001, 02:01:44 AM EDT
                 After re-reading your last statement ... - (brettj) - Oct. 5, 2001, 02:28:23 AM EDT
         The null hypothesis... - (screamer) - Oct. 10, 2001, 12:48:06 PM EDT

Stop thinking in all caps.
139 ms