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New the envelope please...Stephen KING????
The organization that presents the National Book Awards is planning to give its annual medal for distinguished contribution to American letters to Stephen King.

Mr. King's selection is the first time that the organization, the National Book Foundation, has awarded its medal to an author best known for writing in popular genres like horror stories, science fiction or thrillers. Very little of Mr. King's work would qualify as literary fiction.

Mr. King joins a list of previous recipients that includes John Updike, Arthur Miller, Philip Roth and Toni Morrison.
...
Told of Mr. King's selection, some in the literary world responded with laughter and dismay. "He is a man who writes what used to be called penny dreadfuls," said Harold Bloom, the Yale professor, critic and self-appointed custodian of the literary canon. "That they could believe that there is any literary value there or any aesthetic accomplishment or signs of an inventive human intelligence is simply a testimony to their own idiocy."

[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/15/books/15BOOK.html|http://www.nytimes.c...books/15BOOK.html]

I have my own opinion here (natch), but I'm about to be snatched off to a meeting and then I'll be cooking for seven tonight, so this'll have to wait. But what think you, my auditors? Is there a distinguished contribution to be recognized here, or is this one more cultural rampart fallen to the debased postliterate barbarian hordes?

cordially,

Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New And its a fine choice.
. "That they could believe that there is any literary value there or any aesthetic accomplishment or signs of an inventive human intelligence is simply a testimony to their own idiocy."
Not too full of yourself, are ya Harry?

Ms. Bey nominated him this year. She first began to appreciate his work, she said, when she was at Sony Pictures, and it released a film based on his novella "Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption."
Well...someone making a judgement after actually >reading< it.

Hmmm.

Snobs.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New agreed
I bet Harry thinks his shit doesn't smell either.

from the CNN [link|http://edition.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/books/09/16/stephen.king.ap/|article]
"I'm pleased that they're giving it to him," says Ray Bradbury, author of such science fiction classics as "The Martian Chronicles" and recipient in 2000 of the honorary medal from the book foundation. "I don't think they should exclude any special genre, or they'd have to eliminate Edgar Allan Poe, wouldn't they?"

Personally, I'd think The Stand well worth it.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New Different Seasons
Contains RH and the Shawshank Redemption, Apt Pupil, The Body and The Breathing Method.

If you read these stories and think King not capable of literary...then your definition is lacking.

They are not dimestore horror trash...he manages to fit stories into 150 pages or less...3 of which have become movies..2 of them great ones (Shawshank and Stand by Me).

Sure he writes scary stories. He can also just plain write stories...if you haven't read this collection...you must.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New My wife enjoyed "The Girl who Loved Tom Gordon".
[link|http://www.bookbrowse.com/index.cfm?page=title&titleID=358&view=Print|Excerpt from BookBrowse].

Cheers,
Scott.
New Did ya read Misery?
My (oops) sister's husband is responsible for the blowtorch cauterize segment.

He worked for King's publisher and read the galleys. When they got
to the foot chopping scene he remarked that the man would bleed to
death. So they put in the blowtorch.
Expand Edited by broomberg Sept. 19, 2003, 09:37:35 PM EDT
New sure didn't
but be sure to congratulate your wife's husband for me.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New Sounds like littracher to moi. For certain defns.
New Re: And its a fine choice.
King doesn't have enough conflicted homosexuals to appeal to academic taste.

In any case his themes seem more epic/heroic, so they are better compared to classics.
-drl
New And the runner up is Tom Clancy
(mind you, I enjoy his books (or at least most of them))
--

One Buffalo Bill
And one Biffalo Buff
New Well,....
[danger: communist roots showing] he does sell a lot of books and isn't that how we measure the contribution one makes in this society? By how much he $$$ he makes?
bcnu,
Mikem

The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.

- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
New Or by how many people read him?
--

One Buffalo Bill
And one Biffalo Buff
New They read lots of comics & Tee Vee Guides too.
New And Yellow Pages
--

One Buffalo Bill
And one Biffalo Buff
New So you'd give someone a literary award for the Yellow Pages?
New Well, maybe the White Pages...
Not much of a plot, but with a cast like that, who cares?
New I'd give Ashton an award for redifining the word "read".
OT: nice to have you back.
--

One Buffalo Bill
And one Biffalo Buff
New The Stand. besides philip roths claim to fame is jacking off
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New my take on it
I'm inclined to think that, for better or for worse, people will still read Stephen King decades after some of our tonier "literary" authors have been forgotten. Consider the case of James Gould Cozzens, Pulitzer prize-winner, considered a "major" American novelist in the 1940s and 1950s; today nearly forgotten and, so far as I can determine in a cursory search, entirely out of print. Then turn your attention to Raymond Chandler, in his lifetime critically derided as a purveyor of genre fiction, whose posthumous stock has risen steadily, and whose entire oeuvre is still in print.

In reading Stephen King I'm generally surprised at how much better he is than he has to be: he's not a lazy writer and I've never observed him to cheat--that is to say, he gives us honest craft, and whether or not you deem his novels "literature" (I probably wouldn't, but neither do I see a chasm between "literature" and "everything else") they are well-wrought of their kind. If he is very far from being an Updike or a Nabokov as a prose stylist...well, he does not attempt that, and I cannot recall any instances of his solid, workmanlike prose ever making me flinch.

Posterity has the last say in these matters, and although I'm instinctively distrustful of this abstract demographic--if I have little faith in the cultural judgments of the postliterate young, how much more must I disdain their eventual progeny!--I'm content to await that verdict. I suspect that it will prove conspicuously kinder than Professor Bloom's airily dismissive abuse. I'd be tempted to add that Bloom himself will be remembered as a bully and as a snob, but for my doubt that he'll really be remembered at all.

cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New IMO: friend of the arts

He makes a living producing what it is he turns out. He can do better, and seems to me he has from time to time.

\r\n\r\n

What heartens me: he's made a good penny on his works. And he turns a lot of this over to the arts. Among other programs, the program "Selected Shorts" (Saturday evenings on KQED FM, San Francisco), which lists him as a sponsor. I'm trying to remember if any of his "serious" fiction's been included, or if he's actually read for the show.

\r\n\r\n

Remember too that popular != bad. Both Dickens and Twain were tremendously popular in their day, and closer to King's genre we have Lovecraft. The key isn't the learnedness of the writing -- the work is decided accessible -- it's the craft of telling a story in straightforward language, yet still evoking imagery, interest, and an entertaining yarn. Look for example at the Grimm tales -- not sophisticated, often (particularly in their original forms) quite bloody, but tremendously accessible.

\r\n\r\n

There are many far worse picks.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
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New Let's talk about Academic Snobbery...
That's my problem with modern liberal arts college education. Most of the professors are very out of touch with the workings of the modern world, having buried themselves in trying to find the "hidden messages" from documents which are decades or centuries old. I put about as much credit to them as I put on the people who try to fake bigfoot or document alien visits. They survive because they allow the rich to believe they are "more important" than everyone else. They feed elitism.

I think we should rate these people against one another, based on their BEST work, not their average. Stephen King SHOULD be remembered for his very best literature, as we read Shakespeare, Mark Twain, and Arthur Miller today.

This Yale guy wants an academic work credited, not a commercial work in a vain attempt to pretend that academia still matters. It doesn't, and it never did.

Shakespeare's plays weren't for kings and queens, but for the bawdy common folk in a community theatre in a middle-class town in England. The nobles were appalled at Shakespeare's writing and Mozart's music. So common! Too many notes!

My take on fiction writing is this:

1. Does the story line work? Can I follow it? Does it flow? I don't mind books that take you 3-4-5 places at once, as long as the story comes together at some point. I don't want a completely linear story, but I don't want it so disjointed and disorganized that you can't follow it. Isaac Asimov was a genius doing this in his Foundation Series, moving the story from one end of the galaxy to another, until you find out they are people from the same planet.

2. Does the writing permit you to paint a mental picture of the events? Do you smell the leather and varnished wood in the lawyer's office? You you feel the cold as blizzard wind whips across your body? I think this is one of Stephen King's greatest abilities. He can gross you out by reading about cauterizing blood with a blowtorch. You see it in your head, you smell the flesh, etc. Your stomach turns. Touchdown SK!

3. Do you "relate" to the characters? Are they real people with feelings and emotions and motives? I can accept some stereotyping here, evil and good, but some of the very BEST writers go further. It's the difference between the characters in The Stand (where you could pretty much map out evil and good) and Jenny in Forrest Gump (who was really complex and messed up). This is one place I would probably not give King much credit. He tends to formularize the characters, from what I've seen and read. If there's an SK novel with a good/complex character, point it out to me.

4. Finally, good novelists "innovate". They take something you're familiar with, and use it in a different and unique way. They "twist" it. That's what I like about Gresham and Clancy, and even Stephen King. This is one of Kings BEST attributes. You start with something familiar, and he takes you somewhere that, maybe, you don't want to go? That's why he gets this award IMHO.

If this Yale guy thinks he's so good, then why doesn't he write something that does the four things above, and sell it? Perhaps, the truth is, he's too boring to be worth reading. A lot of the authors, playwriters, and musicians of Shakespeare's time made a lot of money working for the king, but none of their music is being played 3 centuries later.

Glen Austin
Expand Edited by gdaustin Sept. 20, 2003, 11:32:50 AM EDT
Expand Edited by gdaustin Sept. 20, 2003, 11:38:35 AM EDT
Expand Edited by gdaustin Sept. 20, 2003, 11:51:05 AM EDT
Expand Edited by gdaustin Sept. 20, 2003, 11:52:06 AM EDT
Expand Edited by gdaustin Sept. 20, 2003, 11:53:54 AM EDT
Expand Edited by gdaustin Sept. 20, 2003, 12:01:34 PM EDT
New One More...
Where a fiction story connects with the "real world" they get their facts straight. I hate nothing more than to have a good story, but then discover half way in, that they are way off on the facts.

That's the nice thing about science fiction. You only have to worry about keeping the facts in the story straight. You don't have to map them back into the "real world".

Glen
     the envelope please...Stephen KING???? - (rcareaga) - (21)
         And its a fine choice. - (bepatient) - (7)
             agreed - (SpiceWare) - (2)
                 Different Seasons - (bepatient) - (1)
                     My wife enjoyed "The Girl who Loved Tom Gordon". - (Another Scott)
             Did ya read Misery? - (broomberg) - (2)
                 sure didn't - (SpiceWare)
                 Sounds like littracher to moi. For certain defns. -NT - (Ashton)
             Re: And its a fine choice. - (deSitter)
         And the runner up is Tom Clancy - (Arkadiy)
         Well,.... - (mmoffitt) - (6)
             Or by how many people read him? -NT - (Arkadiy) - (5)
                 They read lots of comics & Tee Vee Guides too. -NT - (Ashton) - (4)
                     And Yellow Pages -NT - (Arkadiy) - (3)
                         So you'd give someone a literary award for the Yellow Pages? -NT - (CRConrad) - (2)
                             Well, maybe the White Pages... - (hnick)
                             I'd give Ashton an award for redifining the word "read". - (Arkadiy)
         The Stand. besides philip roths claim to fame is jacking off -NT - (boxley)
         my take on it - (rcareaga) - (1)
             IMO: friend of the arts - (kmself)
         Let's talk about Academic Snobbery... - (gdaustin) - (1)
             One More... - (gdaustin)

And Bob's your uncle...
145 ms