the bottom line is solely numeric. This is a closed-system of thought and it is bogus within its own axia / 'constants', those plugged into the spread sheets. Specifically (and my continual point about such specialties as tend to mesmerize via their pseudo-accuracy of the numeric kind) Econ is no more a 'closed system' than is medicine.. inasmuch as the entire human and material infrastructure! is the milieu in which it pretends to operate via those cheap formulae. How does one assign a variable to the velocity of money term, for [Visceral Rage X how many acting out]?

By definition then, theories which horribly oversimplify all of life are bound to create the asinine black/white slogans (whether couched in political or econ language) as maintain the evident class structure and especially -- its current extremes; the now not so slow-extinction of any semblance of a 'middle-class' (even with both 'working').

Yeah, we can toss around a few ideas in harmless and insignificant places like the Web, but in the greater environment? IMhO it remains sheer language murder - and 'debate' within fucked language referents - guarantees that inability to get beyond slogans.. as so characterizes Murican popular approach to every recalcitrant problem that has a name. Shit.. we're still riding the infinite Growth (and Efficiency!) is the road to Prosperity metaphor! - an ass without horse attached.

(Oddly, I note that the most innovative ideas re countering the converging Mega-Corporate control of all necessities of life VS decentralized small and local answers - seems to emanate from conferences in India!)

A recent one re the proliferation of Corp-built dams + World Bank funding sans local vote, and an exploration of some of the human consequences of a particular long-running war - featured a woman with a name defying phonetic approximation {possibly containing arund and rai}. She brilliantly and concisely demolished all Argumentum from 'economy-of-scale' lobbed at her. Alas.. the Supreme Court of India appears to be even more FUBAR than the USSC, given the tale of this particular one (of >2000!) Indian dam projects.

Still, and even if doomed - it was such a treat to hear the English Language used well and succinctly: a treat hardly ever to be experienced in the US outside of some student mock-debate. A treat even if she closed upon a ref. to what happens next:

after.. {their adopted Gandhian non-violent} sustained protest is finally greeted with an Ashcroftian non sequitur - violence is that last resort, always. I think that's the crux of why the above topic will receive no sane attention - momentum and the comfort of familiar self-delusion will substitute for the risk of any honest discussion. Race to the bottom, with blinkers.

Your comments here -

More should be done in terms of providing unemployment insurance and retraining to laid-off employees. Ways should be found to allow change to the US economy and to its trading partners that are fair to both (e.g. removing trade barriers on both sides) - most US industry shouldn't be protected, but US employees should have effective minimum guarantees that they won't be destitute if they're laid off. Ways should be found to force industries to adapt to changes in technology while protecting the employees from crushing unemployement - even if that force is merely the removal of protections (like tarrifs on steel, large displacement motorcycles, sugar, or textiles). Finding ways to do these things will be very difficult because they're inherently political not economic.

- IMhO are an excellent example of just What sort of thinking cannot occur in the US, under current habits so engrained as possibly to have become a common branched DNA in the neurons of babes. All the implications would be submerged in a blizzard of argot from legal, econ, politico and other specially-obfuscating doggerel.

As to,

The US and US business should invest more in rapid high-quality manufacturing techniques that improve efficiency, reduce time to market, and allow greater customization. It's things like this that will allow them to better compete with low-cost manufacturers since they'll always have longer supply lines and poorer communications with US customers.

Isn't this simply a restatement of, infinite Growth is the road to Prosperity?

(I don't see the language-murder concept as even being on the radar, by any euphemism as might serve. Habit. Mental laziness. Is that mass resignation -by '03- or mere ennui over the lying pointlessness of so many Corporate 'positions' - which you accept or ~starve?)


Ashton
Babelfish - a seminal name for Our Time; wasted on a mere translation ap..



Edit typo

Because of the rapid pronunciation of the moderator and less than sterling sound, I missed the connection to THAT "Roy" - speaker made that a long-a sound! and didn't mention the book.. (haven't read Gods.. yet, but it's been on my list)

No argument with your last point, of course. Even were 'we' magically transformed into a nation of adults capable of independent thought, next April 1 -- inertia alone makes that an uncommonly sensical point to note - as in, D'Oh.. Mr. CIEIO.

My sincerest hope is that {simply} Roy is not assassinated. Even soon, as surely is being contemplated.. where such thoughts are a daily mere part of strategy. Too many people Love Her, and more and more are listening.

It's my life-long observation that, those who have accumulated the Most - are most frequently ill; they crave Even More, no matter how large already is that Most-share - of all the (mere material crap + Power) there is.
(Illness is the euphemistic word, of course)

Were Roy's ideas -- as I heard those so clearly expressed re the matter related above -- to galvanize action of the vastly larger pool than the Owning Class (among whom are many with minds too - but more importantly - with developed consciences as the 'ill' people know not of) --

I see generated that Fear within the power-Insane which always leads to actions divorced from any social sense at all. Because they Can. Again.
(Also recently viewed another take on the life of Pancho Villa ;-)

Oh well. Personally, I'd much prefer to go out fighting on such a barricade than to own my own Gated Community and Lear Jet. What could be a more honorable death than that?



Ashton

Except that, all my life I've heard the 'more education' mantra - as being the Largest Perk .. of a rich society with lots of personal time for its citizens.

As we've seen in the US, and for long enough to call it a clear trend: the time that once was availabale (before the 24/7 workday for-both-parents) was hardly employed for becoming more savvy about overseeing one's local or national government, and especially one's local manipulating CIEIOs.

Folks (a decade or so ago) Preferred! the overtime and the extra toys (with less time to play with them) to - say, Owning Your Own Time\ufffd. I saw that as a clear choice in most cases. And by now the 'personal time' has evanesced to the present absurd situation (experienced by most here, if I am able to read correctly).

So there could be no argument about the root-courses in education which you list - but in 2003 and the present local and international circumstances - I fear that any such renaissance shall be delayed yet further. Momentum. There is no fool like an old fool yada.

Believe we're running now and next on Sheer Luck. Things will just "happen to US".



May it hold a while; never mind agonizing about the word deserve..

Ashton