Re: Need recommendations

Post #112,881 by kmself 8/6/03 3:39:31 AM Reply	Re: Need recommendations \r\nA county office wants to look into converting their desktops to Linux. The M$ apps that need to run are an Accounting Package (Dynamics?, a GP offering) and Paradox. They are currently using Word Perfect Office for WP and spreadsheet.\r\n \r\n\r\n It would be helpful if you'd provide versions of the products, all of which had an extensive lifetime, in many forms. If you're dealing with 486s, I'd be inclined to suspect DOS versions of at least some of this stuff. \r\n\r\n For WordPerfect on Linux, well, [link\|http://www.tldp.org/FAQ/WordPerfect-Linux-FAQ/\|read the FAQ]. \r\n\r\n For any version of Windows running on a 486, I'd think you'd have pretty good results with WINE as well. \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\nI could rewrite the Paradox app in ??? and have them use Open Office for WP, but I don't think I can get them to change their accounting software.\r\n \r\n\r\n See below. \r\n\r\n \r\nWhich version of Linux?\r\n \r\n\r\n Debian. You need to ask? \r\n\r\n \r\nOpen Office?\r\n \r\n\r\n Sure, but not on any 486 I've seen. \r\n\r\n \r\nDatabase (must support record level locking, multiple user).\r\n \r\n\r\n Take your pick. I'd suggest PostGres or SAPDB with a Web front-end, but could be anything. \r\n\r\n \r\nAccounting?\r\n \r\n\r\n Sure. \r\n\r\n Oh, you wanted suggestions. How about trying the current package under DOSEMU or WINE? \r\n\r\n \r\nReason for conversion it cost, they don't want to spend money upgrading HW AND SW. "We have a 'bunch' of old 486(!) computers that we don't want to upgrade."\r\n \r\n\r\n Run, don't walk. \r\n\r\n At the very least, demand up-front payment. \r\n\r\n The 486s can be pressed into service, possibly, as X servers. But you'll want a minimum HW set. Depending on configuration, memory, NICs, disks, et al, are going to be more expensive than new HW. Consider that low-end consumer HW is available, new, for $150-$200, and reasonable used HW for a comperable price. I'd propose a C/S model myself, with one modestly amped-up server. \r\n\r\n \r\nOr should I convince them to upgrade HW?\r\n \r\n\r\n Could we convince you to upgrade clients? \r\n\r\n I'd definitely push the HW on them. They've skipped about three generations of PC HW. Current systems will be running at 100 times the speed, with 1000 times the storage, and 64 times the RAM, of these systems. For less than the cost of any repair or upgrade to the existing HW. OTOH, you might want to focus on components likely to produce more immediate visual benefits -- monitors, for example. \r\n\r\n There's an awful lot you're leaving out of this picture though. For starters: \r\n\r\n \r\n How many systems/users? 3? A dozen? 50? This impacts networking and server capacity. \r\n What versions of the software? Have you tested or checked any for compatibility with DOSEMU or WINE? There are definitely versions of most of what you're looking at which will run, natively or emulated, depending, on Linux. And there are apps which will replace them altogether. Establish what's desired and/or acceptable. While I thought OpenOffice.org (OOo) would read/write WordPerfect docs, I find no control for this, or mentions in the online help. \r\n What's the accounting package do? \r\n What's the current networking infrastructure? 5Mb/s ethernet? You're going to have to look at upgrading that, possibly including cabling, if you're going to go to an X Terminal model. Note that if you crack open a dozen 486s, one of 'em's liable not to work when you're done. Bring lots of canned air and a dust mask. \r\n Does this have to happen in on swell foop? Incremental cutovers work best. I'd suggest bringing in a Linux server and moving applications onto it over time (remote session), rather than cutting the legs out from under the Windows users at once. \r\n What are the reasons for considering Linux? Strategic long-term positioning, or are they just cheap bastards? \r\n --\r\n Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link\|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/\|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html\|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
Post #112,904 by Another Scott 8/6/03 10:09:59 AM Reply	Agree on the HW upgrade. Time savings alone will objectively justify the cost, but having a bean-counter approve it is another issue... I've purchased two refurbished Compaq Presario 6000 machines recently. They've been fine. They now have a similar machine for $399 without a monitor. It has a 90 day warranty. [link\|http://www.shopping.hp.com\|http://www.shopping.hp.com] click on "outlet store" then click on "refurbished desktops" then click on "refurbished Compaq Presario desktops". (I'd post the URL but is has a bunch of Java session ID stuff in it...) AthlonXP 2000+ (1.67 GHz) 256 MB PC2100 40 GB hard drive 48x12x48 CD-RW 10/100 ethernet, modem Integrated graphics Sound, etc. WinXP Home Mine was similar but has a 60 GB hard drive and a CD-RW/DVD combo drive. $420. and $400. for the two I bought. I'm sure you can get similar machines elsewhere, and your local shop may be able to build something similar for less. Being able to buy them off the shelf saves the aggravation of putting them together yourself. Otherwise, if they insist on the same hardware, I think you'll have to go with a server/thin client solution like KMS and others have outlined here. Good luck. Cheers, Scott.
Post #113,218 by rickmoen 8/8/03 3:25:16 PM Reply	WordPerfect filters While I thought OpenOffice.org (OOo) would read/write WordPerfect docs, I find no control for this, or mentions in the online help. To quote a friend of mine, "Well, read the [link\|http://linuxmafia.com/wpfaq/future.html#ALTERNATIVES\|FAQ]." grin That is, there's an alpha-stage filter project, run out of a SourceForge project page, with (if memory serves) development shared between the OpenOffice.org Writer people and the AbiWord people. Progress isn't very fast because there doesn't seem to be heavy effort being put into it. They've bestowed on the underlying library a "version 0.5" moniker for the latest release, which version you can use for command-line conversions. By contrast, the "writerfilter" version, i.e., the OpenOffice.org Writer plug-in filter, currently remains at "version 0.1", which sounds a bit scary. Me, I've had excellent luck in the past using the wp2latex command-line filter to translate .wpd documents into TeX, and from there to whatever I want using LaTeX stuff, but clearly this isn't what a non-technical office worker wants. Sites that need to do a one-time conversion of legacy .wpd documents into .rtf, .sxw, or something else useful will find the available command-line tools to serve nicely (batching is so nice!), but will have a minor dilemma if they're obliged to have ongoing bidirectional conversion. Some of the proprietary suites do include robust .wpd filters (Anywhere Office, Ability Linux, TextMaker for Linux). Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Post #113,236 by orion 8/8/03 6:10:29 PM Reply	Cheaper Hardware How cheap do they want to go? Consider this company: [link\|http://www.pconramp.com/\|http://www.pconramp.com/] Well when they get their web site back up next week, sigh. Contact sales and ask them about what used systems they have for sale. But they have Pentium III 600Mhz systems and up for under $200, Dell, Compaq, IBM, etc. Sans monitors. Good enough to run Linux on, and cheap enough to get the Bean Counters to consider a HW upgrade. Used, ex-leased systems, limited warranty, and sans OS. If they want cheaper than that, they are just being impossible.

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