Re: Y'know - I know of only one person here who admits to

taking orders, speaks of regularly "asking permission to ___"

Hehehe, you must mean me. :) I will say this. I respect authority if the authority grants me that respect back. In otherwords, take Scott here. When I first joined here, I consulted with him about the wisdom of that and what I wanted from it. I also respected his ownership and running of the site, and deferred to whatever he asked me to do if it seemed reasonable and doable... at one point, maybe I think one was not.

It is when authority does not deserve that respect, that is when I don't give it back as readily. But as I am also a moderator of three Yahoo groups and one site myself, I expect that respect and consideration. When I tell someone to stop cussing, I except it to happen. When I tell someone to stop posting sensitive info, I expect it to stop. I consult with my group members, get their opinions and make no decisions without their input, but I do expect some respect as the leader, since they chose to be members of my group.

So, I respect ChrisR's request of taking this discussion to Politics, and against my better judgement, I'm back here. If you choose to jump it back to Open Forum, that is up to you.

In your opinion. Others may disagree about the hows and whens and ifs. And, I do. As to locale - personally, I can't conceive of a 'social' topic which does not in some way reference or contain 'politics' - which is, after all: about the social behaviour of putatively self-governing groups here and there. Not everything "about politics generally" necessarily belongs in a Politics forum - which generally deals with argument er "within that arena". It's a meta- kinda thing. Unsubtlety is so jejeune.

I thought about this part of your post all the way to therapy. I think I nailed down why I am so disinterested and even at times, completely turned off by politics, and it is what you said that triggered that realization.

Ashton wrote:>>personally, I can't conceive of a 'social' topic which does not in some way reference or contain 'politics' - which is, after all: about the social behaviour of putatively self-governing groups here and there.<<

You see, politics give me a bad taste in my mouth, I guess. Because of politics, I was fired from the local college radio station because they couldn't fire all the DJ's who didn't want to follow my direction. Because of politics, I watched my beloved BBS Affinity die on the vine. Because of politics, I lost a beloved job, as well as a fight against the University of Missouri, my self-respect, my confidence, and my trust in the employment world. Because of politics, I watched three churches I belonged to crumble and fall apart and die. Because of politics I was banned from the Star Wars Fan Club Yahoo group.

Politics to me, is any group of leaders in charge of any group of followers. The followers either follow or flee, but that is what it's about in general for me. Government to me is not politics. Government can exist in a different plane, and I don't just mean US goverment. Government is actually only the governing of some body of people or some situation. A church is governed, even a family is governed... it only becomes politics in the bad sense that we know it, (i.e. the part that gives me a bad taste in my mouth), when conflict, dissension and unfairness arise.

This is probably why in my study of history, I focused on the bigger events when focusing on political ones, i.e. Watergate, Assassination attempts and successes, The Clinton Scandal, rather than on each and every move every politician made. I chose instead to study World War Two, the history of Germany and Britain, the US involvement in WW2, WW1, and only touched on Vietnam before leaving my curriculum. I focused on the psychology of war, the effects of war, the things that drive people to do the things they do, including the military, rather than on who lied or didn't, or kept their promises or didn't. I was just not interested in all the deceit and dishonesty.

Further, and on more than one occasion - Nightowl, a person IIRC >30 years of age - has volunteered her views on (the idea of) 'politics', and limned her level of interest and knowledge on the topic. Having so volunteered, and with requisite "I'm so confused" self-commentary upon this predicament in which she finds herself: she has, IMO delivered an invitation for comments. Else why mention the topics? and so provocatively..

Limned, that's a word I didn't know. Yes, I chose to portray in words my views, but only after my simple request was ignored. I truly just came in here to ask a genuine question, which wasn't responded to or ever answered simply, and the answer was simple, i.e. why Bush called his press meeting.

Instead I got embroiled in this intriguing albeit sometimes frustrating topic. I am not a closed-minded person as a rule, and I chose to engage rather than disengage, but I hope I chose to engage in a proper and polite manner, rather than a rude or negative one.

By the way, Ashton, I'm 41. I said 30 years because I started being stepped all over around the age of 8-10 years of age, and allowed it to continue until sometime in the 1990's. I don't know what IIRC means in relation to 30 years.

I don't mind comments, and yes, in a way I suppose I did invite them, although I'm not sure what you mean by provocatively, because I do not believe I made my posts in an,(citing dictionary here): "instigative, angry or irritating manner." If I did, I apologize. I was just stating the facts about the issue, not trying to "piss anyone off."

Such replies are apt to vary from the merely astonished onwards towards useful perspectives of the sort, Here are some angles on this subject, why it is likely important -even to you- and lastly: might even contain some suggestions for beginning to explore this heady Idea. In fact, both Jake and I (maybe others) offered some remarks of the latter kind, generally refrained from comments upon how it could be that a person might retain such a blank -?- for such an extended period of life.

Yes, you and Jake did refrain from outright putting me down or name-calling for the most part, and I do appreciate that.

Nightowl >8#

As long as you follow the [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/forum/show?forumid=5|Forum Guidelines] and consider the audience here, you can post however you like. If you're doing something that someone finds annoying, they'll probably let you know.

Show initiative! Charge ahead and wait to be corrected later. :-)

Yes, you can delete a post and manually move it elsewhere if you'd like (though copying it might make more sense if the post already has a reply). If someone wants to see what happened, they can examine the Edit History. If I understand what you want to do, you'll need to manually add a link to the redirected post (if you want to make it easy for your readers to find it). How to do that is left as an exercise for the poster.

If you have more questions like this, they should probably be moved to [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/forum/show?forumid=6|Tips For New zIWETHEY Users].

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #112,289 by Nightowl 7/31/03 4:49:32 PM 7/31/03 9:05:53 PM Reply	Re: Y'know - I know of only one person here who admits to I moved this post manually over to Politics because I had tried to jump it there. I believe I successfully did that with the third reply to this post (new thread) Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum" (Don't let the bastards grind you down) Comment by Nightowl Edited by Nightowl July 31, 2003, 09:05:53 PM EDT Re: Y'know - I know of only one person here who admits to taking orders, speaks of regularly "asking permission to ___" Hehehe, you must mean me. :) I will say this. I respect authority if the authority grants me that respect back. In otherwords, take Scott here. When I first joined here, I consulted with him about the wisdom of that and what I wanted from it. I also respected his ownership and running of the site, and deferred to whatever he asked me to do if it seemed reasonable and doable... at one point, maybe I think one was not. It is when authority does not deserve that respect, that is when I don't give it back as readily. But as I am also a moderator of three Yahoo groups and one site myself, I expect that respect and consideration. When I tell someone to stop cussing, I except it to happen. When I tell someone to stop posting sensitive info, I expect it to stop. I consult with my group members, get their opinions and make no decisions without their input, but I do expect some respect as the leader, since they chose to be members of my group. So, I respect ChrisR's request of taking this discussion to Politics, and against my better judgement, I'm back here. If you choose to jump it back to Open Forum, that is up to you. In your opinion. Others may disagree about the hows and whens and ifs. And, I do. As to locale - personally, I can't conceive of a 'social' topic which does not in some way reference or contain 'politics' - which is, after all: about the social behaviour of putatively self-governing groups here and there. Not everything "about politics generally" necessarily belongs in a Politics forum - which generally deals with argument er "within that arena". It's a meta- kinda thing. Unsubtlety is so jejeune. I thought about this part of your post all the way to therapy. I think I nailed down why I am so disinterested and even at times, completely turned off by politics, and it is what you said that triggered that realization. Ashton wrote:>>personally, I can't conceive of a 'social' topic which does not in some way reference or contain 'politics' - which is, after all: about the social behaviour of putatively self-governing groups here and there.<< You see, politics give me a bad taste in my mouth, I guess. Because of politics, I was fired from the local college radio station because they couldn't fire all the DJ's who didn't want to follow my direction. Because of politics, I watched my beloved BBS Affinity die on the vine. Because of politics, I lost a beloved job, as well as a fight against the University of Missouri, my self-respect, my confidence, and my trust in the employment world. Because of politics, I watched three churches I belonged to crumble and fall apart and die. Because of politics I was banned from the Star Wars Fan Club Yahoo group. Politics to me, is any group of leaders in charge of any group of followers. The followers either follow or flee, but that is what it's about in general for me. Government to me is not politics. Government can exist in a different plane, and I don't just mean US goverment. Government is actually only the governing of some body of people or some situation. A church is governed, even a family is governed... it only becomes politics in the bad sense that we know it, (i.e. the part that gives me a bad taste in my mouth), when conflict, dissension and unfairness arise. This is probably why in my study of history, I focused on the bigger events when focusing on political ones, i.e. Watergate, Assassination attempts and successes, The Clinton Scandal, rather than on each and every move every politician made. I chose instead to study World War Two, the history of Germany and Britain, the US involvement in WW2, WW1, and only touched on Vietnam before leaving my curriculum. I focused on the psychology of war, the effects of war, the things that drive people to do the things they do, including the military, rather than on who lied or didn't, or kept their promises or didn't. I was just not interested in all the deceit and dishonesty. Further, and on more than one occasion - Nightowl, a person IIRC >30 years of age - has volunteered her views on (the idea of) 'politics', and limned her level of interest and knowledge on the topic. Having so volunteered, and with requisite "I'm so confused" self-commentary upon this predicament in which she finds herself: she has, IMO delivered an invitation for comments. Else why mention the topics? and so provocatively.. Limned, that's a word I didn't know. Yes, I chose to portray in words my views, but only after my simple request was ignored. I truly just came in here to ask a genuine question, which wasn't responded to or ever answered simply, and the answer was simple, i.e. why Bush called his press meeting. Instead I got embroiled in this intriguing albeit sometimes frustrating topic. I am not a closed-minded person as a rule, and I chose to engage rather than disengage, but I hope I chose to engage in a proper and polite manner, rather than a rude or negative one. By the way, Ashton, I'm 41. I said 30 years because I started being stepped all over around the age of 8-10 years of age, and allowed it to continue until sometime in the 1990's. I don't know what IIRC means in relation to 30 years. I don't mind comments, and yes, in a way I suppose I did invite them, although I'm not sure what you mean by provocatively, because I do not believe I made my posts in an,(citing dictionary here): "instigative, angry or irritating manner." If I did, I apologize. I was just stating the facts about the issue, not trying to "piss anyone off." Such replies are apt to vary from the merely astonished onwards towards useful perspectives of the sort, Here are some angles on this subject, why it is likely important -even to you- and lastly: might even contain some suggestions for beginning to explore this heady Idea. In fact, both Jake and I (maybe others) offered some remarks of the latter kind, generally refrained from comments upon how it could be that a person might retain such a blank -?- for such an extended period of life. Yes, you and Jake did refrain from outright putting me down or name-calling for the most part, and I do appreciate that. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum" (Don't let the bastards grind you down) Comment by Nightowl Collapse All History
Post #112,333 by Nightowl 7/31/03 8:18:38 PM 7/31/03 9:09:05 PM Reply	Re: Y'know - I know of only one person here who admits to Uh Oh. I wanted this post to jump to politics.... It didn't. Can anyone (admin) move it there, or do you have any suggestions how I could? Thanks! Nightowl >8# P.S. Never mind, I manually moved it there and linked it to the reply to the first one. :) "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum" (Don't let the bastards grind you down) Comment by Nightowl Edited by Nightowl July 31, 2003, 09:09:05 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #112,339 by Another Scott 7/31/03 8:44:16 PM Reply	Posts can't be moved. Some more tips... Hi, By design and by choice, posts can't be moved by [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/user?userid=1&backurl=http%3a//z.iwethey.org/forums/render/user/userStatistics%3fbackurl%3dhttp%253a//z.iwethey.org/forums/render/user/activeUsers%253fbackurl%253dhttp%25253a//z.iwethey.org/forums/render/forum/show%25253fforumid%25253d4\|admin] or anyone else. If you want your post to show up in a different forum, make sure you click the "As New Topic" checkbox, and use the dropdown box below it to select the forum you want. Then click the Save button. As a general principle, it's probably worth your while to experiment with the various posting functions and options in the [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/forum/show?forumid=4\|Test Forum]. Many of the options are simpler to figure out by experimentation than by having someone try to explain it. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #112,340 by Nightowl 7/31/03 8:46:35 PM Reply	Re: Posts can't be moved. Some more tips... Thanks, I know what I did wrong. I didn't check the checkbox, just made the selection. Is it acceptable to copy it and paste it into the Politics forum, and then delete all the content but the direction there in the one in here? Thanks. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum" (Don't let the bastards grind you down) Comment by Nightowl
Post #112,341 by Another Scott 7/31/03 9:00:01 PM Reply	There are no moderators here. Use your judgement. As long as you follow the [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/forum/show?forumid=5\|Forum Guidelines] and consider the audience here, you can post however you like. If you're doing something that someone finds annoying, they'll probably let you know. Show initiative! Charge ahead and wait to be corrected later. :-) Yes, you can delete a post and manually move it elsewhere if you'd like (though copying it might make more sense if the post already has a reply). If someone wants to see what happened, they can examine the Edit History. If I understand what you want to do, you'll need to manually add a link to the redirected post (if you want to make it easy for your readers to find it). How to do that is left as an exercise for the poster. If you have more questions like this, they should probably be moved to [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/forum/show?forumid=6\|Tips For New zIWETHEY Users]. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #112,345 by Nightowl 7/31/03 9:08:04 PM Reply	Re: Posts can't be moved. Some more tips... Thanks Scott, it didn't have any replies, so I moved it. :) I only asked the question in here because it was ChrisR who wanted the topic moved, and his post about it was in here. :) Sorry, I'll ask questions like tha in the tips forum from here on. :) Thanks again! Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum" (Don't let the bastards grind you down) Comment by Nightowl
Post #112,343 by Nightowl 7/31/03 9:04:15 PM Reply	Re: Y'know - I know of only one person here who admits to (new thread) Created as new thread #112342 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=112342\|Re: Y'know - I know of only one person here who admits to] "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum" (Don't let the bastards grind you down) Comment by Nightowl

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