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New Re: MLP: TheInq on what 64-bits is and isn't good for.
Muddy cr*p. See my response in a later article on The Inquirer.
qts
New Saw it. Good rebuttal. :-)
New Linkz0r?


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New It got moved off the front page.
[link|http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10539|http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10539] has it (off the Week to Date link).

Cheers,
Scott.
New Not sure I agree on one point you make...
and that has to do with color. From [link|http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color|Wikipedia on Color Vision]:
It has been estimated that humans can distinguish roughly 10 million different colors, although the identification of a specific color is highly subjective, since even the eyes of a single individual perceive colors slightly differently.
To me that means anything over 24-bit color is a waste of time and resources.
Alex

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. -- George Bernard Shaw
New Wrong reason
24 bits are probably* enough to display any image as well as can be done on a normal desktop computer. But if your goal is really high quality images, you really want more bits when processing the image. Generally 24 bit images consist of 8 bit values for red, green and blue. This means only 256 values for each component, which means error can accumulate when multiple calculations are done to an image before it is displayed.

The real reason the move to 64 bit is largly not revelent to graphics is that the high performance internal calculations that can benefit from being done with more bits often already are. All of the current x86 processors have extensions that let some calculations be done with more then 32 bits already. There are several variations, but one example the Streaming SIMD Extensions 2 found on Pentium 4 processors can do up to 128 bit math.

Jay

*I say probably because there are complications that make it hard to be sure. Different people have different degrees of sensitivity to different parts of the spectrum, distortion caused by light sources other then the moniter, differences in the exact spectrums produced by different moniters and other messy factors make a precise calculation hard.
New And to get even messier . .
. . illuminate a room with a neon glow lamp (which will have some argon contamination). Note that you can see a wide range of color at impossibly low light levels using only two lines of the spectrum (neon (orange) and argon (violet)).

As an exercise for the student. reconcile your observations with accepted color theory in 300 words or less.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Re: And to get even messier . .
Is there a difference between a "neon glow lamp" and a "Budweiser" sign? For some reason bar neon lights always get on my nerves, but I can't say why.
-drl
New Difference in scale and gas mix.
Bar neons are ionized at very high voltages, and gasses are mixed to get desired color. Tubes are sometimes tinted to modify the color further. A neon glow lamp generally runs at 115 volts and is small.

The problem with your nerves is probably that these lamps have little latency, so they flicker at 120 Cycles (Hz, for you younger guys).

I probably still have the neon glow lamp (packed in with my collection of vacuum tubes) that introduced me to the color phenomenon (back in my Jr. Scientist days (one of my several "past lives")). It's a 115 volt bulb about the size of a 15 Watt incandescent with opposing semicircles as the illumination surface. I was trying it out as a darkroom light and was amazed when I could see colors with less light than moonlight and with a single band of the spectrum, in defiance of what I'd been taught about color in school (this was neither the first nor the last episode of discovering that what you are taught in school is crap).

Further investigation came up with the facts that neon is gnerally contaminated with argon resulting in a violet sideband, the eye apparently uses ratios between the two bands to generate color, and this phenominon is not entirely unknown to science, but is rarely admintted to.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Expand Edited by Andrew Grygus July 21, 2003, 12:08:56 AM EDT
New Ah: Mr. Edwin Land, ___I presume ;-)
New Cones?
Could be the cones are highly stimulated by these pure frequencies.

I found this:

[link|http://bulbmuseum.net/bulbs/ne34.htm|http://bulbmuseum.net/bulbs/ne34.htm]

I've gotta have one of those :)
-drl
New Yeah, that's the critter.
That's a dead ringer for the bulb I'm talking about.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New About colour
My understanding is that although 24 bits are sufficient to completely cover a monitor's gamut, it's not enough to cover both the monitor's gamut and that of a half-decent colour printer; hence scanners that scan at 36 or 48 bits per pixel.

This is really fuzzy stuff for me; I could well be wrong :-)


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Gray range would improve
I don't believe the 256 available in 24bit color mode is adequate.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New Not so, IIRC
ISTR that 256 shades of grey is completely adequate for both print and screen use.

Could be wrong, though.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Haven't found much
I know video compression discards a lot of color info but saves the B&W info - found this [link|http://www.adobe.com/motion/events/pdfs/dvtour.pdf|PDF file] at Adobe, slide 15
    Color Perception
  • Human eye is much more sensitive to luminance than to color
  • Even "uncompressed" video only keeps half the color data
  • Most compression schemes work by discarding changes in color
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
     MLP: TheInq on what 64-bits is and isn't good for. - (Another Scott) - (17)
         Nice! -NT - (deSitter)
         Re: MLP: TheInq on what 64-bits is and isn't good for. - (qstephens) - (15)
             Saw it. Good rebuttal. :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
             Linkz0r? -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
                 It got moved off the front page. - (Another Scott)
             Not sure I agree on one point you make... - (a6l6e6x) - (11)
                 Wrong reason - (JayMehaffey) - (6)
                     And to get even messier . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (5)
                         Re: And to get even messier . . - (deSitter) - (1)
                             Difference in scale and gas mix. - (Andrew Grygus)
                         Ah: Mr. Edwin Land, ___I presume ;-) -NT - (Ashton)
                         Cones? - (deSitter) - (1)
                             Yeah, that's the critter. - (Andrew Grygus)
                 About colour - (pwhysall)
                 Gray range would improve - (SpiceWare) - (2)
                     Not so, IIRC - (pwhysall) - (1)
                         Haven't found much - (SpiceWare)

Excuse me while I go throw up.
99 ms