I hadn't thought of that.

Post #10,869 by static 9/28/01 10:54:49 PM Reply	I hadn't thought of that. But it bears closer investigation. A site I didn't mention but could have is [link\|http://www.ninemsn.com.au/\|NineMSN], the web site of Australia's Channel Nine network. It was launched with the help of Microsoft, but Nine market it as if it were entirely their own. I bet few people even remember what the "MSN" means, but there are links to HotMail and MS's PassPort on many pages... Now NineMSN site is both advertising and content. As a whole, it advertises Channel Nine's programs and services, but it also provides content and information beyond what they could broadcast. It also pretends to be "the Internet", which is why it doesn't have a search engine for just NineMSN (a horrible omission, IMO) and also why it has all these "community" things like forums. Like any MS-backed site, it prefers you use IE in a default state. In fact, it's so IE-centric that it tends to crash Opera. I, with some difficulty, visited the Farscape forum on there some months ago to ask about a technical aspect of the broadcast (for some reason, they weren't transmitting it in stereo). After a few exchanges with the otherwise friendly denizens, I had to say "I'm not coming back - it is really quite bad forum software". (However, the stereo aspect was fixed, possibly proving that Channel Nine were wisely using it as valuable feedback.) But I digress. It is tempting to extrapolate back from my premise to yours saying "well, it's IE-centric, intended for J Clueless Windows User, it must be an advertising site" but I think that logic is flawed. NineMSN does offer good content; the lifestyle programs always refer you to their web page for more information. But they can't evade the corporate design which makes the whole site a subtle advertisement for Microsoft software, doing what it can get away with to pretend everything else doesn't exist. FWIW, I've tried contacting their web master pointing out some of these problems. I never got a response. Clearly Microsoft's backing speaks louder than end-users such as I. Instead, I have to settle for dis-recommending the site to everyone who asks. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #10,881 by a6l6e6x 9/29/01 3:26:20 AM Reply	Same experience. FWIW, I've tried contacting their web master pointing out some of these problems. I never got a response. Telling those turkeys they are limiting their readership has been of no use. They got their free copy of MS Front Page. Alex Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad. -- Euripides
Post #10,883 by static 9/29/01 3:53:01 AM Reply	What really needs to happen... A major advertiser or someone They Want or They Want To Keep has to say to them: "your website causes problems on our (non-IE) web browsers; we are therefore not going to be using your web site/services or advertising your URL" The cynical amongst us will opine that snowballs will be wearing party hats in hell before that happens. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #10,949 by Meerkat 9/29/01 10:02:32 PM Reply	I can't brownse ninemsn at work... ... or at least until recently I couldn't. Last week or so sometime the IE5.5 icon appeared in the Novell Delivered Apps window thing. However I haven't clicked on it as a mattor of principle. Or to sum up - it breakes the default browsert here at work - Netscape 4.08. Havnen't tried turning off javascript yet - at least when I do that I'm able to browse australianit.com.au (which otherwise dies on an advert's javascript) John. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #10,957 by static 9/30/01 12:35:01 AM Reply	Default browser is NN 4.08? My stars... ! How totally obsolete... Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #10,970 by Meerkat 9/30/01 2:02:09 AM Reply	Aye! /me considers dashing off to Opera's web site... :) On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #10,975 by pwhysall 9/30/01 2:54:19 AM Reply	Enough of that, you. Get thee to an open, standards-compliant browser. [link\|http://www.mozilla.org\|http://www.mozilla.org] -- Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #10,982 by Meerkat 9/30/01 3:29:44 AM Reply	Mmmm... Mozilla... Apart from the 'thou shalt not install anything on pain of death' rule... I'd give it a go. (Or Opera for that matter.) Then again, I use my own Telnet client (as the only supplied one is Microsoft Telnet) /me looks around, noticing the office is completely empty. Then dashes off the Mozilla... Ooh, how did that happen? I just slipped on the mouse and... download in progress :) On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #10,992 by static 9/30/01 8:59:30 AM Reply	Oh? And where does user-preference come in? Mozilla still champions the SDI model, doesn't it, and stays with the multi-key keyboard shortcuts Netscape began with, yes? I will willingly champion Mozilla's cause, but I must also defend my right to prefer a different user interface. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #11,005 by kmself 9/30/01 2:35:35 PM Reply	Keybindings You want keybindings? We [link\|http://www.mozilla.org/unix/customizing.html#keys\|gotchya keybindings heyah!]. Naturally, all the above and more pertains to a [link\|http://galeon.sourceforge.net\|real browser] (and, say, Shill, you ain't goin' recidivist on us are ya?). `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`
Post #11,034 by static 9/30/01 8:34:51 PM Reply	Well, finally. They didn't have that within easy reach last time I tried Moz. I wonder if it works on Windows, too? I'll Moz on Windows shortly. My Windows laptop currently has a range of browsers so one more won't go astray. It's useful having them all when exploring HTML compatibility. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #11,056 by Meerkat 10/1/01 2:42:27 AM Reply	Oh? I will willingly champion Mozilla's cause, but I must also defend my right to prefer a different user interface. It's OK, it's OK, nobody's asking you to change. Have a cup of tea. To make everyone happy I've downloaded them both. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.

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