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New Re: It's rubbish!
"Underline.."

NO!!
-drl
New Re: It's rubbish!
YES!

And the LORD sayeth unto thee, UNDERLINE THY HYPERLINKS OR DIE.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Shouldn't it be left as a browser config issue?
-drl
New Re: Shouldn't it be left as a browser config issue?
No. Users need a consistent visual cue that informs the user this here text is a hyperlink or not [link|http://news.bbc.co.uk|regular text].

We underline our links to provide that cue.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Umm . .
. . that's what color is for. I absolutely DESPISE underlined links. Do NOT underline.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New that is what colour is for
and when you mouse over a link the text does become underlined.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
New Point being:
Don't specify it in the HTML. Leave it up to the user and their browser settings.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Yay colourblindness!
and displays that don't have colour!

Fuck accessibility!


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Those that can't see color . .
. . can set their browser to underline links. Browsers can do that you know. I can see color and I don't want underlined links.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Then set your brower to not underline links.
Browsers can do that you know.
--
Chris Altmann
New But if the HTML/CSS
say it is underlined... it will be.

Sort of like [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/board/show?boardid=1|THIS ONE]

But not like [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/board/show?boardid=1|THIS ONE]

See the diff?

[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!]

THEY ARE WATCHING YOU.
The time has come for you to take the last step.
You must love THEM.
It is not enough to obey THEM.
You must love THEM.

PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
New Understood
Then it shouldn't be hardcoded as underlined (or non-underlined) in the CSS. Let the user decide. Most are going to have underlines by default.
--
Chris Altmann
New Exactly!
Peter was just having a fit of I-know-better-than-you-itis. (Runs rampant in a certain area of Washington State...).

I hope he's better now....
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New The browser can't turn underlines off . .
. . if the Web designer has specified underlines under links. If the Web designer has not, the browser may underline or not underline at the user's discression.

A Web site that specs all links underlined violates good HTML practice, which is supposed to give the viewer maximum flexibility in page layout and appearance.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Agreed
I guess it was unclear (to me) that you were arguing that it should be left open to the user and not that the links should explicity without underlines in the CSS.

And if I had read _all_ of the responses I would have seen that this point was [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=107574|already covered] :)
--
Chris Altmann
Expand Edited by altmann June 28, 2003, 03:58:59 PM EDT
New Bollux

A proper browser [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/UserContentCSS|can pretty much do anything you want it to with the page].

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New Oh sure . .
. . so I'm supposed to blow a whole lot of hours I could be billing at $90 and higher to become an expert in cascading style sheets just so I can have links displayed the way they should have been in the first place if some hot-shot Web designer hadn't decided everyone is going to have underlined links whether they like it or not. Shooting the Web designer makes more sense.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Re: Oh sure . .
\r\nso I'm supposed to blow a whole lot of hours I could be billing at $90 and higher\r\n
\r\n\r\n

That's one option.

\r\n\r\n

OTOH, one reason I created that page was so that I could post stylesheets where which fix commonly cited problems with websites. In my case, font size crap. Though if you'll look at the provided stylesheet, you'll find it's extensively commented. Including some handling of anchors, default, hover, and click styles defined. If there's something missing you'd like added, drop a line.

\r\n\r\n

I forgot to add the [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Download/test.html|before] and [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Download/test-css.html|after] links there, I'll add those, meantime, peek at what I just provided.

--\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
New And would be much more satisfying, to boot!
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Nice as a default rule.
But rules are made to be broken. When they're broken without regard for the effect on the overall design, then feel free to trot out the censure. When they are broken by capable designers, then you can go stick your legalistic view of web page design in a pig.

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
New Shouldn't be specified one way or the other.
There is a browser setting for it. Use it.

But don't force it one way or the other through HTML. Capable designer or not.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Uhhh, Peter....
Who died and appointed you Lord of All Things Visual on the Web?

I'll decide what constitutes a "constant visual cue" for my browser when I go surfing the web, thankyewveryfuckingmuch! I don't need you or any-bloody-one-fucking-else making the decision for me as to what I need to determine a link. Just give me the option in my browser, the get the fuck out of my way, goddammit!
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
     critique my web site - (cforde) - (54)
         Mozilla 1.3b 1024x768 - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
             good suggestions - thank you -NT - (cforde)
         Opera 6 at 1280. - (static) - (4)
             same under Phoenix 0.5 @ 1280 - (SpiceWare)
             Re: Opera 6 at 1280. - (cforde) - (2)
                 Ah... - (static) - (1)
                     what works - (cforde)
         Opera 6 at 1280. - (static)
         It's rubbish! - (pwhysall) - (24)
             Re: It's rubbish! - (deSitter) - (21)
                 Re: It's rubbish! - (pwhysall) - (20)
                     Shouldn't it be left as a browser config issue? -NT - (deSitter) - (19)
                         Re: Shouldn't it be left as a browser config issue? - (pwhysall) - (18)
                             Umm . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (14)
                                 that is what colour is for - (cforde) - (1)
                                     Point being: - (admin)
                                 Yay colourblindness! - (pwhysall) - (11)
                                     Those that can't see color . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (10)
                                         Then set your brower to not underline links. - (altmann) - (9)
                                             But if the HTML/CSS - (folkert) - (2)
                                                 Understood - (altmann) - (1)
                                                     Exactly! - (jb4)
                                             The browser can't turn underlines off . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (5)
                                                 Agreed - (altmann)
                                                 Bollux - (kmself) - (3)
                                                     Oh sure . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                                                         Re: Oh sure . . - (kmself)
                                                         And would be much more satisfying, to boot! -NT - (jb4)
                             Nice as a default rule. - (tseliot)
                             Shouldn't be specified one way or the other. - (admin)
                             Uhhh, Peter.... - (jb4)
             high-res monitors - (cforde) - (1)
                 Let the user decide if it is easy to read. - (admin)
         Fine - nice and minimal, tasteful layout - (deSitter)
         Couple things - (Silverlock) - (13)
             the warranty logo - (cforde)
             back at the ranch - (cforde) - (11)
                 I don't think I want to know - (Silverlock) - (10)
                     "Back at the farm", "the range", "the spread"... :-) -NT - (CRConrad) - (9)
                         OK, but I know it as something *used* on a farm - (Silverlock) - (8)
                             Or, "honey wagon" in Germany. :) -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                             Did you have any reason to think I didn't know that...? - (CRConrad) - (6)
                                 Huh. I always assumed you were raised by sailors... -NT - (tseliot) - (1)
                                     ... I was thinking Vikings or pirates or something... :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                 Re: Did you have any reason to think I didn't know that...? - (deSitter) - (1)
                                     Jawohl. (I cheated, can't for the life of me... - (CRConrad)
                                 Not really - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                     Heh! :-) -NT - (CRConrad)
         Fine on my Mac - Safari 1.0 @ 1024x768. Like it! -NT - (Meerkat)
         Looks nice, formatted well, but... - (folkert)
         Safari 1152x768 - (tjsinclair)
         Re: critique my web site - (Ashton) - (1)
             photo - (cforde)
         Decent - (broomberg)

Well, from then on, we had a whale of a time. I took her to dinner, I took her to dance. I bought her a bouquet of flounders. And then I went home with her. And what did I get for my trouble? A case of the clams.
161 ms