Post #107,462
6/27/03 3:14:07 AM
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critique my web site
I have been working on a [link|http://pws.prserv.net/stormlantern/VillasAtSardisPark/|new web site] for a housing developer to replace the [link|http://www.thevillasatsardispark.com/|old one]. I've created everything on the new site except for the two logos on the home page and the aerial shot, though I've tweaked them too. (The aerial shot will be replaced by an unlabeled picture as soon as the photographer sends it to me.)
I'm particularly interested in feedback on the new site's usability. How well does the navigation, layout and design work for you and is there anything that grates your nerves? General suggestions for improvement would be appreciated too.
Thanks for your help.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,463
6/27/03 3:36:02 AM
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Mozilla 1.3b 1024x768
Usability is fine. Page fit is fine.
I'd get differnt views for the picture at the top - the pages are kind of monotonous.
Small pictures of the testimonial customers to the left of their text would add considerable interest.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #107,573
6/27/03 3:55:44 PM
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good suggestions - thank you
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,468
6/27/03 7:07:50 AM
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Opera 6 at 1280.
The menu bar on the left overlaps a little with the text. From looking at the source I can see how the menu bar is positioned, but I can't readily see where the main body text is moved out of the way.
Otherwise it looks pretty good.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #107,487
6/27/03 9:26:25 AM
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same under Phoenix 0.5 @ 1280
instead of seeing "What's new as of June 26th..." I see "hat's new as of June 26th..."
The photo of the row of houses also gets cropped on the left.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #107,575
6/27/03 3:57:48 PM
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Re: Opera 6 at 1280.
I'll have to try Opera. I used margins to position the main body text. Seems Opera counts differently than IE and Mozilla.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,642
6/27/03 10:25:34 PM
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Ah...
That should work, then.
If you use the same units. :-)
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #107,830
6/30/03 2:03:57 AM
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what works
is Opera 7.11. It seems to render everything correctly.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,469
6/27/03 7:09:13 AM
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Opera 6 at 1280.
The menu bar on the left overlaps a little with the text. From looking at the source I can see how the menu bar is positioned, but I can't readily see where the main body text is moved out of the way.
Otherwise it looks pretty good.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
|
Post #107,470
6/27/03 7:11:05 AM
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It's rubbish!
Only kidding :)
Seriously, make it use my 1600x1200.
Underline your hyperlinks; people expect them to be so.
Other than that, quite nice, if a little basic.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #107,475
6/27/03 8:34:24 AM
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Re: It's rubbish!
"Underline.."
NO!!
-drl
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Post #107,506
6/27/03 10:21:48 AM
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Re: It's rubbish!
YES!
And the LORD sayeth unto thee, UNDERLINE THY HYPERLINKS OR DIE.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #107,507
6/27/03 10:22:42 AM
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Shouldn't it be left as a browser config issue?
-drl
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Post #107,510
6/27/03 10:29:43 AM
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Re: Shouldn't it be left as a browser config issue?
No. Users need a consistent visual cue that informs the user this here text is a hyperlink or not [link|http://news.bbc.co.uk|regular text].
We underline our links to provide that cue.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #107,541
6/27/03 12:02:15 PM
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Umm . .
. . that's what color is for. I absolutely DESPISE underlined links. Do NOT underline.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #107,570
6/27/03 3:50:40 PM
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that is what colour is for
and when you mouse over a link the text does become underlined.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,574
6/27/03 3:56:27 PM
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Point being:
Don't specify it in the HTML. Leave it up to the user and their browser settings.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #107,667
6/28/03 2:09:55 AM
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Yay colourblindness!
and displays that don't have colour!
Fuck accessibility!
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #107,668
6/28/03 2:14:42 AM
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Those that can't see color . .
. . can set their browser to underline links. Browsers can do that you know. I can see color and I don't want underlined links.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #107,702
6/28/03 2:29:55 PM
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Then set your brower to not underline links.
Browsers can do that you know.
--
Chris Altmann
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Post #107,707
6/28/03 3:17:11 PM
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But if the HTML/CSS
say it is underlined... it will be.
Sort of like [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/board/show?boardid=1|THIS ONE]
But not like [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/board/show?boardid=1|THIS ONE]
See the diff?
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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Post #107,711
6/28/03 3:47:54 PM
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Understood
Then it shouldn't be hardcoded as underlined (or non-underlined) in the CSS. Let the user decide. Most are going to have underlines by default.
--
Chris Altmann
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Post #108,221
7/2/03 1:46:00 PM
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Exactly!
Peter was just having a fit of I-know-better-than-you-itis. (Runs rampant in a certain area of Washington State...).
I hope he's better now....
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #107,713
6/28/03 3:49:36 PM
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The browser can't turn underlines off . .
. . if the Web designer has specified underlines under links. If the Web designer has not, the browser may underline or not underline at the user's discression.
A Web site that specs all links underlined violates good HTML practice, which is supposed to give the viewer maximum flexibility in page layout and appearance.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #107,715
6/28/03 3:54:50 PM
6/28/03 3:58:59 PM
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Agreed
I guess it was unclear (to me) that you were arguing that it should be left open to the user and not that the links should explicity without underlines in the CSS.
And if I had read _all_ of the responses I would have seen that this point was [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=107574|already covered] :)
--
Chris Altmann
Edited by altmann
June 28, 2003, 03:58:59 PM EDT
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Post #107,725
6/28/03 7:12:29 PM
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Bollux
A proper browser [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/UserContentCSS|can pretty much do anything you want it to with the page]. --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #107,746
6/28/03 11:54:23 PM
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Oh sure . .
. . so I'm supposed to blow a whole lot of hours I could be billing at $90 and higher to become an expert in cascading style sheets just so I can have links displayed the way they should have been in the first place if some hot-shot Web designer hadn't decided everyone is going to have underlined links whether they like it or not. Shooting the Web designer makes more sense.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #107,756
6/29/03 1:09:11 AM
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Re: Oh sure . .
\r\nso I'm supposed to blow a whole lot of hours I could be billing at $90 and higher\r\n \r\n\r\n That's one option. \r\n\r\n OTOH, one reason I created that page was so that I could post stylesheets where which fix commonly cited problems with websites. In my case, font size crap. Though if you'll look at the provided stylesheet, you'll find it's extensively commented. Including some handling of anchors, default, hover, and click styles defined. If there's something missing you'd like added, drop a line. \r\n\r\n I forgot to add the [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Download/test.html|before] and [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Download/test-css.html|after] links there, I'll add those, meantime, peek at what I just provided. --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #108,223
7/2/03 1:47:39 PM
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And would be much more satisfying, to boot!
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #107,553
6/27/03 12:41:10 PM
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Nice as a default rule.
But rules are made to be broken. When they're broken without regard for the effect on the overall design, then feel free to trot out the censure. When they are broken by capable designers, then you can go stick your legalistic view of web page design in a pig.
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #107,572
6/27/03 3:55:23 PM
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Shouldn't be specified one way or the other.
There is a browser setting for it. Use it.
But don't force it one way or the other through HTML. Capable designer or not.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #108,220
7/2/03 1:42:23 PM
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Uhhh, Peter....
Who died and appointed you Lord of All Things Visual on the Web?
I'll decide what constitutes a "constant visual cue" for my browser when I go surfing the web, thankyewveryfuckingmuch! I don't need you or any-bloody-one-fucking-else making the decision for me as to what I need to determine a link. Just give me the option in my browser, the get the fuck out of my way, goddammit!
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #107,576
6/27/03 4:02:40 PM
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high-res monitors
couple of things, I don't have a high-res monitor to test it on and I want to avoid having long lines of text. Long text lines are very hard to read. Because my target audience is 55 & older, easy to read was a design goal.
Having said that, do you have any suggestions on how it could work on a high-res monitor and be as easy to read?
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,578
6/27/03 4:05:12 PM
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Let the user decide if it is easy to read.
They can always size the browser window down. People who have a hard time reading small text (like myself) will typically already have made the text size bigger (a good reason to use relative, not absolute, text sizing) and won't be bothered by long lines.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #107,477
6/27/03 8:38:52 AM
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Fine - nice and minimal, tasteful layout
Needs a stylesheet to handle hi-res.
-drl
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Post #107,493
6/27/03 9:58:32 AM
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Couple things
Is "rancher style" home a Canadian term? US usage is "ranch" home and the only way I've heard it used.
The Warranty logo looks slightly out of place and jars visually somewhat with rest of the front page.
Aside from that, a nice clean layout with good navigation.
-----------------------------------------
[link|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html|?W]
Where were you in 72?
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Post #107,571
6/27/03 3:53:43 PM
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the warranty logo
I can't do much with that, it's their logo.
Clean and easy to navigate is what was trying for.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,827
6/30/03 1:37:05 AM
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back at the ranch
I did a Google [link|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=%22rancher+style%22+house&btnG=Google+Search|search] . "Rancher style" seems to be a Canadianism. This makes me wonder about the differences between rancher, farmer, spreader and ranger style homes. I sometimes wonder why I wonder about things like this...
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,854
6/30/03 9:12:22 AM
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I don't think I want to know
A "spreader" style home?
-----------------------------------------
[link|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html|?W]
Where were you in 72?
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Post #107,856
6/30/03 9:15:47 AM
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"Back at the farm", "the range", "the spread"... :-)
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Post #107,865
6/30/03 10:30:36 AM
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OK, but I know it as something *used* on a farm
The spreader lays down the fertilizer. AKA shit sprayer.
-----------------------------------------
[link|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html|?W]
Where were you in 72?
|
Post #107,880
6/30/03 11:48:34 AM
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Or, "honey wagon" in Germany. :)
Alex
The tendency to turn human judgements into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous
forces in the world. -- Georgia Harkness in "Conflicts in Religious Thought" (1929)
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Post #107,902
6/30/03 2:16:44 PM
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Did you have any reason to think I didn't know that...?
/me grew up partly on a small farm, yaknow... Can't remember fersure, but it's possible I drove the tractor that pulled the gödselspridare (or düngerwagen, in German) at the age of ~10. Whether I did or not, I certainly watched Dad do so; helped him hitch it to the tractor, etc.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #107,904
6/30/03 2:32:08 PM
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Huh. I always assumed you were raised by sailors...
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #108,038
7/1/03 12:15:52 PM
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... I was thinking Vikings or pirates or something... :-)
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Post #107,905
6/30/03 2:36:57 PM
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Re: Did you have any reason to think I didn't know that...?
Interesting,
I suppose that is a manure cart?
-drl
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Post #107,909
6/30/03 2:56:08 PM
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Jawohl. (I cheated, can't for the life of me...
...recall the word for an actual *spreader* in German, at the moment. :-)
Could in Swedish, though; "spridare" is close enough that I'm sure you recognised it.
As you see, my native tongue definitely isn't my best on any more. :-(
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #107,915
6/30/03 3:22:31 PM
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Not really
Hell, your english is better than mine. But you may not have had reason to believe *I* knew that.
-----------------------------------------
[link|http://www.talion.com/questionw.html|?W]
Where were you in 72?
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Post #107,917
6/30/03 3:56:13 PM
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Heh! :-)
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Post #107,495
6/27/03 10:03:04 AM
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Fine on my Mac - Safari 1.0 @ 1024x768. Like it!
John. Busy lad.
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Post #107,519
6/27/03 10:58:23 AM
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Looks nice, formatted well, but...
It would be nice if you could not leave the right 5/8th of my screen devoid of anything. With width it is always a good thing to use relative based upon the screen width.
You can set a minimum, but don't specify a maximum. That is unless you have something special for that size.
Other than that... lookey mighty finey.
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
|
Post #107,566
6/27/03 2:23:20 PM
|
Safari 1152x768
Looks good from here (meaning that recent versions of Konq should also look decent.)
Tom Sinclair
"Man, I love it when the complete absence of a plan comes together."
- [link|http://radio.weblogs.com/0104634/|Ernie the Attorney]
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Post #107,569
6/27/03 3:48:53 PM
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Re: critique my web site
1152 x 864 Moz 1.4rc1 - (19" Trinitron)
Air-view photo reads cropped on L:
"? single char" + "Air Photos, Inc" [diagonal]
"balairphotos.com".
I note that the lo-saturation background pastels chosen are good anti-glare, don't interfere with type legibility = proper usage! IMhO. Pure white is a retina maimer.
As to underlines or no? - at least mouseover adds-in the debatable
traditional underline -- should there be any wannabe retiree who missed the clear contrast of the links VS all else on the page (?)
Clean, no silly filigrees or Look-at-Mes. Like it.
Ashton
IANAWD
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Post #107,839
6/30/03 3:35:45 AM
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photo
I've replaced the photo with the official version that doesn't have the photographer's ad on it. I've also cropped it a little wider and changed the colour balance a bit so the Sardis Park lagoon stands out better.
The background colours are somewhat plain in the interest of high legibility. I want the site to be very easy to look at and read.
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #107,608
6/27/03 7:21:55 PM
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Decent
Good brochureware.
Konquerer 3.1-12, 1152x864
Seems a bit cut-off at the bottom
You might want to actually upsize the fonts. You are targetting old people!
|
