And to sum it all up.

Post #10,502 by a6l6e6x 9/26/01 5:07:56 AM Reply	And to sum it all up. Palestine is a name given to the region by controlling outsiders. The people that call themselves Palestinians, don't as such exist (they are just Arabs), and in any case, have no rights or claims to anything. Very neat. Alex Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad. -- Euripides
Post #10,655 by bluke 9/27/01 3:41:48 AM Reply	Show me otherwise You yourself admitted that 100 years ago "Palestine" was desolate
Post #10,854 by a6l6e6x 9/28/01 8:46:25 PM Reply	It takes incredible arrogance... to deny anyone the right to have a name for who they are. Perhaps I have the problem of not understanding because I'm not one the Master Race, er "chosen people". Using your logic -- 60 years ago there were no Israelis, only pockets of Jews here and there all over the world. Therefore, there is no Israel, only Arab lands occupied by Jews. Substituting "variables", it's the same argument you are using. It doesn't wash any more than your argument. I do not deny Israel the right to exist and governing itself in a sane manner. Return the land occupied since the 1967 war, East Jerusalem included, and make peace with your neighbors. Don't quote and interpret for me UN resolutions. Israel ignores UN resolutions it doesn't like. Alex Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad. -- Euripides
Post #10,928 by bluke 9/29/01 4:33:57 PM Reply	They can call themselves Martians ... for all I care. The name is irrevelant. The bottom line is that they have no historic connection with the land of Israel. The Jews onb the other hand do. We have been praying for 2000 years to return, this fact has been almost universally recognized. Read the Balfour declaration (from the British not exactly the most pro-Jewish group around) and all the other documents from that time. They all speak of the historic Jewish connection with the land. The Arabs have 99.6% of all the land in the Middle East why do they need any more?
Post #10,988 by bluke 9/30/01 4:54:30 AM Reply	Palestinians: Israel simply is not yours This is a great article which makes my point better then I have been making. [link\|http://www.suntimes.com/output/steinberg/cst-nws-stein09.html\|http://www.suntimes...stein09.html]
Post #10,999 by wharris2 9/30/01 1:35:44 PM Reply	Hear ye, hear ye Who knows how empty the sky is In the place of a fallen tower. Who knows how quiet it is in the home Where a son has not returned. -- Anna Akhmatova (1889-1966)
Post #11,042 by a6l6e6x 9/30/01 9:57:31 PM Reply	"Gaza, West Bank, & E. Jerusalem are Spoils of War". And you expect peace with that? Logically then, Israel can become the spoils of war to the folks that don't like the current state of affairs. Might makes right. Yep. And leveling the buildings of your enemy to the ground, because you can, is right too? It happens on a regular basis to Israeli foes. Where have I seen that, lately? Advancing civilization, one tactic at a time. Alex Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad. -- Euripides
Post #11,060 by bluke 10/1/01 3:39:21 AM Reply	Re: "Gaza, West Bank, & E. Jerusalem are Spoils of War". The fact is in 1967, Israel offered everything back in return for peace. The Arabs responded with the famous 3 no's of Khartoum. The fact is that if you start a war and lose it you pay the price. Let us look at some historical examples: The French took Alsace-Lorraine, in 1945 from Germany. Its consequent occupation must not be rewarded. "A full withdrawal for full peace" should operate here. The US took much of the Southwest by force from Mexico, give it back.
Post #11,063 by bluke 10/1/01 3:57:42 AM Reply	More facts about the "Palestinians" Read this article: [link\|http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=550\|http://www.israelna....php3?id=550] Here are some relevant quotes: "Professor of history Rashid Khalidi, himself a Palestinian Arab admits that "Palestinian identity" was the last garb that the Arabs of Palestine tried on when all other possibilities where exhausted. It was shared "by a relatively restricted stratum and among them, as well as among the rural and illiterate majority of the population, the new sense of Palestinian identity competed and overlapped with Ottomanism and Arabism, as well as older religious, local and family loyalties." ... "Julius Stone wrote in 1970 a must-read paper entitled "Self-determination and the Palestinian Arabs." His arguments are so clear and convincing that it is most effective simply to quote him profusely. He explains that "it twists and parodies both history and justice to present the Palestine issue as a struggle between the Jews of the world on the one hand and the Arabs of Palestine on the other, in which the Jews seized the major share." Stone continues, "The struggle was rather between the Arabs of the Middle East region (including some hundred thousand living in Palestine) and the Jews of the world, in which the Arabs took the lion\ufffds share from which in due course a dozen and more Arab states emerged. Neither at the time of distribution, nor for decades later, moreover, was there any identifiable Palestinian Arab people, much less any center of Arab cultural or political life in Palestine." Rashid Khalidi. Palestinian Identity. Columbia University Press, 1998. Julius Stone. Self-Determination and the Palestinian Arabs. From the book "Israel, the Arabs and the Middle East," Bantam Books, 1972.

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