Fair enough... I think I now see the fundamental basis

of our disagreement.

I see the current crop as just another in a series that has brought us to this point.

Illustration :
A small piece of paper sits on a ledge in my yard. Suddenly, a strong wind blows. The paper is way the hell in my neighbor's yard the next day. I surmise that since George W. Bush is the president and since the paper was still in my yard before he became president that the paper was lost because George W. Bush became president.

I dislike your philosophy because it implies that we are really in control of world events. I liken world events to a strong wind. The house of cards we've built as a nation wasn't built in three years or even three generations. We are still paying for Roosevelt and Eisenhower's mistakes at the close of WWII. The reason I find your philosophy so appalling is that it impies that if we just kick out the current crop, we'd somehow be okay?

I understand, on a fundamental level, why you still have a need for order as opposed to simply accepting chaos. I have a need for order myself. It is ingrained in the human psyche. But I don't buy your prescription. I don't think Bush is the "reason" but simply the continuity of a trend that has started many, many years ago. It's okay to feel passionate, but your (and many other's in this Politics forum) rhetoric is almost as excrutiating to digest as that of the administration you are railing against.

From one human being to another, I am pointing out to you that maybe you can catch more flies with honey than with the dogshit you have been spewing out. YMMV.

Causality rehashed?
Or just an automatic straw-man labelled moi, for convenience.

Of course 'George Bush the man' is somewhat irrelevant; had he not been found to be both malleable and to possess a Famous Name to boot; financed massively and groomed by the associates of the same Karl Rove who got him into Texas Governorship -- someone else would have received the personal re-make. It's about credo not personality (except as election ploy, always). D'Oh.

As to "being in control of events" - you may not accuse me of a naivete I thought you had also outgrown. Nor even of the insouciance which imagines that the US of '03 is anything like what is portrayed to the tykes, in the civics books we used to have in schools. Polished spin du jour notwithstanding.

It's unclear if you have even troubled to look up the material on the Project for a New American Century website - for a mere start. It appears that you haven't read even that. Or noted its officers VS a Cabinet roster, then compared events.

What 'We' as voting citizens are responsible for, on the level of democratic theory (and at very least) is:

1) Not! achieving perfection in a choice of leader, based upon his/her previously stated axioms. We have an Executive branch: that the micromanagement (and impossibility thereof) of 'consensus by the multitudes' is somewhat abated. We take-the-word. We advance a trust - initially. It's all we can do - at first.

2) But when, after the fact of Leadership attained (leaving aside the peculiarly bogus means re the one at hand, for the moment) - it becomes apparent that a new Leader has become a zealot, with an agenda (public and unstated, both) which is motivated by personal religiosity and is actually a creation of a (now identifiable) group of others unelected to any post, then

3) Under Our Constitution, citizens are obligated to act in opposition: on as many levels as you want to parse that meaning. Unless.. most citizens agree with the never discussed, never-debated new agenda for the conduct of the Nation [??]

And since the Fourth Estate / imaginary Fourth Branch of US Government, presumed to inform the populace somewhat truthfully, after parsing - is currently owned by a group with similar aims to the present I-say cabal - so has the nation lost a vital part of its functioning requirement. It is no longer "informed" but propagandized. Thus are 'we' in an alt-mode; something for which there is neither a formula to solve, nor an easy slogan to encapsulate. Nor is there a quick-fix, though rapid action appears to be a necessary next step - for those who do not buy into the unstated agenda now unfolding.

Your changing the scale to Centuries - and expressing a fondness for Chaos Theory may seem to be the root of our disagreement - to you, but I'm not biting. Your support for the 'Means Justify Ends' approach to the world's attempts to retain a semblance of lawfulness among nations - follows from neither fork, and you were stationed even, within a country which had adopted the same non-ethic: and you witnessed the result.

If you remain ignorant of the agenda being fulfilled, precisely as diagrammed at site above - then you are a lazy fool by your own lights. If you noticed the agenda limned and now embrace it, then you are a supporting member (and become my lawful enemy): one who condones nay celebrates the recent propaganda success (re the bogus WMDWMD mantra used daily - and still!) and much else of the machinations thus far. Those include: systematic reversal of Citizen Rights basic to the Constitution - nullification thereof, precisely! Or would you care to debate IF.. such has occurred? Too!

If that is the case for you: so would you have embraced Mein Kampff, a similar Project for a New German Century/Millennium, and also based upon Might Makes Right: that regime's methods for dealing with all others on the planet were equally based upon fabricated "threats to Itself" (and as re Czech. - flat bogus from the outset) and finally - utter disdain for the thoughts or rights of any other nation. Because Germany Had the Military Power.

"Catch more flies with honey?" WTF do you think you know about a Wolfowitz or a Rove; and what-all have you not been noticing since 9/11? You might as well have been on a steady diet of worldnetdaily and Rush, whom you equate for analytical abilities with.. Molly Ivins, say (!!) Hey Dan: meet marlowe.

Can your enviro at academe have morphed you into another Nintendo-Eloi, now fully embracing the slogans of this cabal? What snapped? Ya useta be a contender..

Pshaw.

Ashton

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