Let's hope...

Post #104,992 by screamer 6/5/03 12:54:21 PM Reply	Let's hope... In all honesty, I admire your optimism and your idealism. I posted the Allies article, perhaps as a way to demonstrate that France, Germany, and the Soviet Union may not have that much "moral high ground" to judge us (USGB - The United States of Great Britain), as well as to remind you that your country was not always as "pacifistic" as your statement about "Unlike the American populace, the UK man on the Clapham omnibus was, is and will be resolutely anti-war." It was intellectually offensive to anyone who knows anything about history - especially the "was" part. Now, substitute the word Kurd for Jew or Armenian. There's a little moral high ground there? Peter, to wit, a generation ago is not that long in a historical sense. I am 41 years old. When I was born in 1961, the insanity of World War II was only over for a scant 16 years. But it was just a story in a history book to me. Now that I am 41, 16 years ago ain't that long - nor is 50. Unlike many in this group, I think the USGB did the right thing and in the right way (cameras, ground war, etc.) in Afghanistan and Iraq. Compare the way we conducted this war with WWII in the links I provided. You don't have to be ashamed. Just a few thoughts, Screamer But take your time, think a lot, Why, think of everything you've got. For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not. Y. Islam - Father and Son
Post #105,060 by orion 6/5/03 7:17:41 PM Reply	Learning from history We have history to learn from, so we don't repeat our past mistakes or the mistakes of those before us. Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't there British troops in the current Iraqi War? Is this fact being ignored? Also British fighters, etc. They were and are our allies. They got their hands bloody too. So did some of Iraq's neighbors. So you can't just blindly blame everything on the USA. We had some partners in this war. *"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard*
Post #105,086 by pwhysall 6/6/03 3:50:14 AM Reply	Re: Learning from history We have history to learn from, so we don't repeat our past mistakes or the mistakes of those before us. I already said that, but with less words. Is there a reason for repeating it? Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't there British troops in the current Iraqi War? Is this fact being ignored? Also British fighters, etc. They were and are our allies. They got their hands bloody too. So did some of Iraq's neighbors. So you can't just blindly blame everything on the USA. We had some partners in this war. I never said anything to the contrary. My point was that while the US public was overwhelmingly pro-war, the UK public wasn't, probably because we're tired of seeing people—our people—get blown up after watching it on the news night after night for the past 30 years. Our administration acted against the express will of the people, and I expect them to reap the rewards at the next General Election. However, given the amusingly fractured state of the Conservative Party, there isn't a viable alternative to Labour unless the Liberal Democrats get their act together. Me? I'm going to vote Lib Dem, because they at least seem honest. This is the party that says, up front, that they're going to stick a penny on income tax for the purpose of properly funding education. Labour (whom I voted for in the past two elections) have shot their bolt with me. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #105,113 by orion 6/6/03 11:17:05 AM Reply	Re: Learning from history I never said anything to the contrary. My point was that while the US public was overwhelmingly pro-war, the UK public wasn't, probably because we're tired of seeing people\ufffdour people\ufffdget blown up after watching it on the news night after night for the past 30 years. We have a lot of US Citizens upset about the war, more than you think. I wouldn't say that we are overwhelmingly pro-war, about less than half of us actually seem to be pro-war. An overwhelming amount of us are misinformed or uninformed about the war facts and why we went over there. I must admit I was buying the story of there being WoMD over there, but I would have accepted our government saying they have to remove Saddam from power to free the Iraqi people from his dictatorship before he kills any more of them. I'm hoping that they find at least some WoMD over there before time runs out. In any case we have had a lot of Anti-War protests over here, too many to be considered that the US public was overwhelmingly pro-war. *"If you're going to cheat, cheat fair. If there's anything I hate it's a crooked crook!" -Moe Howard*
Post #105,171 by warmachine 6/6/03 5:46:14 PM Reply	What party is your MP? What are the party rankings in your constituency? I'm also thinking of voting Liberal Democrats, not Labour, except Lib Dems are 3rd in my constituency way behind 2nd place Conservative. A vote for Lib Dems would be a vote for Tory. So, I can't do it. Matthew Greet But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie. - Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
Post #105,176 by pwhysall 6/6/03 7:39:03 PM Reply	Re: What party is your MP? [link\|http://politics.guardian.co.uk/hoc/constituency/0,9338,-1129,00.html\|http://politics.guar...338,-1129,00.html] Excellent resource. Although the Lib Dems have only 10% or so of the vote, they're on the up, and the Conservatives are waning. I hope to push this process along :-) Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]

Welcome to IWETHEY!