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New " the pacifist former British Empire.."
Ah yes - to lose an empire is obv. too high a price to pay; right, Dan?

What's a good price to build a new one? Is the next 3 generations a good enough investment?
New slong as its not my three generations : Prescott
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

"I hit him so hard in the head his dog shat a turd in the shape of Jesus" Leonard Pine
New Who said they lost it?
Are we not just a "former" member. To wit, the "rest of the world" views us (the US and Great Britain) as the same entity ala the term UNILATERAL... The description of what the USGB (nice ring to it) did in Iraq. UNI - ONE. Are we our own empire or an extension of an existing one? I think it's a good question to ponder if one is to make sense of current world events.

If any nation threatened GB, it is an auto war against US as well. Notice how the Monroe doctrine didn't apply to GB in the Falklands? etc... etc... etc...

I suspect that Peter is just as out of touch speaking for GB's popular opinion as you are speaking for US's. :-)

50 years ago is not that long ago, by the way.

And as I've said before, your contention that it will take time to repair the damage the current administration has done is plain old politically motivated BULLSHIT. This country's reputation pre Bush wasn't so great either. The World Trade Center was bombed during your precious Clinton years by people who claimed to be mad at another Bush... ad nauseum. But, you know that. You've just found a point to rail on with the current crop of politicos. This country is no better nor worse than any other. All the countries of the world possess "leaders" who are masters of deceit, greed, et al. They are called "politicians".

Are you your brother's keeper?
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer


But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.


Y. Islam - Father and Son
New We can still agree on a few points.
Did you ever look up that ballet, The Green Table -?- wherein the 'diplomats' open the first act - gesticulating at each other over an umm green table. Next scene shows a damn good balet improvisation of the reulting heaped dead young cannonfodder. Then return the Suited Ones, offering each other cigars. So yes: most leaders are there for possession of oer'weening Pride, Ego and Unscrupulousness .. most; fortunately for the entire world: not all or usually not too many of the patent misanthropes all-at-once. No argument here. So then - give up? Chant, Today Afghanistan/Iraq! Tomorrow Iran/et al -- die Welt!!

You continue to be (or to play) dumb about the puppeteers behind our variously-challenged bogusly-ensconced Leader. Dismissing all evidence of the larger organization behind the scenes, is a level of insouciance just above believing then, in the Tooth Fairy IMO.

It's hard for me to imagine your whole-hearted acceptance of the Slogans du jour - but less hard to imagine you haven't done fuck-all in closely inspecting the history of the principals in this play -- at very least Rove, Wolfowitz, Kristol + a bevy of others in the Cabinet: and their past writings (esp. the seemingly unguarded ones - though Rove is too smart to put anything much on paper: except the pabulum of the day).

So why should I argue with the intentionally uninformed?

Brother's Keeper -?- nonsequitur:
Christian dogma speaks of this. Most Muricans think they sorta believe it's a Good Thing. Theoretically. Now as to what most Christians practice daily - we've had those threads.

"Brotherhood" is a concept about as far from the Murican psyche as would be indicated by 'our' utter addiction to 'Action', almost solely dedicated to increasingly graphic portrayal of the creation of heaped dead -pref. still dying- bodies -- in what we call 'entertainment'! Locally as bereft of meaning as the inane phrase, The Murican Peepul Want ___. There ain't no such animal - nor are 'we' a melting pot neither..

Give me a break. Dubya cannot utter a sentence with the words brotherhood or compassion - except in.. his.. ... most.. .. stilted-form .. yet-observable. Ever a robotic recitation and such great body-language to observe - you have eyes; use the fucking things: See! what you are Looking At.


Ashton
New Not perfect == can't screw it up more?
No, we never had a perfect reputation. Pretty damned close in the months after 9/11, though. But it has never been (and isn't yet) so bad that it couldn't get screwed up more.

For example, we were assumed to be a theoreticaly non-aggressor nation, invading only after establishing a reasonably convincing argument that we were opposing an act of overt aggression, even if we did have to fake it sometimes. I do know enough 20'th C. US history to know Iraq wasn't an innovation in action. But it was an innovation in words, and words do mean something.

On the world stage, Clinton had a fairly good reputation. So did George I. Not as particularly moral or generous or good-hearted individuals, but as negotiators with whom one could make a profitable deal. Remember how George I's coalitions used to involve big countries that could actualy send troops? I never was much of a fan of the guy, but he was good at foreign policy. He knew what the hell he was doing. George II on the other hand has made it known he isn't making any real deals. This is how it's going to be, take it or leave it. He won't be building any real coalitions. Sure, he's willing to throw some cash around and make some concessions on minor stuff, so he can get Mexico to not oppose too much, and Spain and Camaroon to do a little cheerleading. GB doen't count - if Bush announced he was taking down the Archbishop of Canturbury because English people talk funny, Tony Blair would go before the UN and point out "see? I'm doing it right now!" and then send troops to attack themselves.

You can say it doesn't matter - those other countries never sent all that many troops anyway. But it does - George II will never have the options of economic sanctions or weapons blockades and will have to march our troops all over hell and back because there will continue be so many countries they can't cross.

Bombing the WTC was never a very good indication of world opinion. Rather the opposite - the WTC represented more than just the US. It represented global commercialism of which the US is the flagship, not the fleet. The better the US was doing with the fleet, the worse the playa-haytas wanted to blow it up.

Polls have rather consistently shown that a majority (not an overwhelming majority as the media has painted it - more in the 60% range than the 90% range) of US citizens are in favor of the invasion of Iraq, while a substantial majority of pretty much everybody else, the English included, are rather strongly opposed.

----
Sometime you the windshield, sometime you the bug...
     It's time Britain admits it was suckered into war - (lincoln) - (18)
         s/Britain/Blair/ - (pwhysall) - (17)
             Dresden? -NT - (screamer) - (16)
                 toosmall a sample try here - (boxley) - (15)
                     Since we're having a little fun now... - (screamer) - (14)
                         Oh, for those too lazy to click links... - (screamer) - (8)
                             Way to lose context. - (pwhysall) - (6)
                                 Let's hope... - (screamer) - (5)
                                     Learning from history - (orion) - (4)
                                         Re: Learning from history - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                             Re: Learning from history - (orion)
                                             What party is your MP? - (warmachine) - (1)
                                                 Re: What party is your MP? - (pwhysall)
                             #2: Oh thank heavens, for a while I thought I was reading .. - (dmarker)
                         " the pacifist former British Empire.." - (Ashton) - (4)
                             slong as its not my three generations : Prescott -NT - (boxley)
                             Who said they lost it? - (screamer) - (2)
                                 We can still agree on a few points. - (Ashton)
                                 Not perfect == can't screw it up more? - (mhuber)

Looks like I shouldn't have skipped putting on the third coat of sarcasm.
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