Post #104,871
6/4/03 6:14:26 PM
|
I have no idea what this means
all this rambling on about doobie men, running from the KGB and elves was it - oh sorry GNOMEs it is now. And why would I care about the Ginsu Live album or CD or whatever?
Anyhow, the need to hamstring a perfectly good FreeBSD system and its decent UI and working consistently designed applications by running one or another of the ugly hacks atop "X: The First Fully Modular Software Disaster" (tm) escapes me.
What can linux give me that I can't get with darwin?
"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination
of their C programs."
-- Robert Firth
|
Post #104,878
6/4/03 6:33:02 PM
|
Well...
Pretty deep subject there.
I didn't want to annoy you... twas merely a notice that something alternative was a foot.
Geez Todd, don;t be such an Alpha Geek... man.
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
|
Post #104,904
6/4/03 9:20:13 PM
|
Re: I have no idea what this means
What can linux give me that I can't get with darwin?
I've never seen darwin, but..
There is just something fun about Linux, it can't be explained. I mean, you said you liked UNIX. I would try FreeBSD, but there isn't much point. That would be - well - too serious.
On the other hand I'd really like to see these Mac idioms you like so much. Why don't they try some of that stuff on Intel?
-drl
|
Post #104,919
6/4/03 11:22:32 PM
|
I was just bustin gf's chops
My personal take on operating systems is I hate them all and want them to vanish completely. Like the plumbing in my house I don't care if its PVC, copper, or clay pipe because I never see it and regardless of what's in the walls the interface to me is the same. To me the nix's are all pretty much the same and I like it that way. I don't look for differences among them - I don't care to have to care and I've only ever bothered to customize a login or shell in the most minimal way (environment variables is about it). It keeps me portable.
Linux seems too fiddly to me. I don't have the patience for all the little bits of it. The different distros, options, package managers, window managers, etc... Its like collecting trading cards (something else I've never done).
What I like about OS X is it stays out of my way - I install it and it runs. I can install all the open source goodies if I need em, and otherwise it just works and I can safely ignore it. Even network settings and stuff. I can flip open the screen on my Powerbook and if there's a network around I'm on it.
Where I find the fun is in the application development layer. What languages, code libs, are available to make things? On the Mac, Cocoa is probably the most amazing compiled development environment I've ever used. Objective C is a sweet language and the UI building facilities are quite good.
These days I'm retreating more and more into Squeak because the dev tools in Smalltalk are just too amazing (having a debugger you can code in is a treat that I'm missing on my Java gig). Plus the code base available is really amazing (although a little raw in spots). And it really does make the OS invisible with code running bit identical on practically anything with 32M of ram, some persistent storage, a screen and an input device (pen or keyboard).
"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination
of their C programs."
-- Robert Firth
|
Post #104,926
6/5/03 12:51:01 AM
|
Dissapear like the plumbing?
Fortunately, I run OS/2, and it gives me a hell of a lot less trouble than the damned plumbing.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
|
Post #104,973
6/5/03 11:29:11 AM
|
Buy a house first
Aren't you the guy who lives on a boat? Your plumbing consists of dumping it over the side doesn't it?
[image|/forums/images/warning.png|0|This is sarcasm...]
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
|
Post #105,023
6/5/03 3:19:00 PM
|
I have a house
OK, its more like a condo in LoDo (we call it a loft).
I haven't been living on the boat since last June.
And it has plumbing - that hand pump is for dumping things discretely into the water from below the surface. :-P
"One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination
of their C programs."
-- Robert Firth
|
Post #105,016
6/5/03 2:37:03 PM
|
Re: I was just bustin gf's chops
I am Squeaking too. This will be the most fun in a long time - it's got an entire machine dedicated to it (my little Gateway gem).
Thanks for getting me interested in something again.
-drl
|
Post #105,209
6/7/03 3:16:54 AM
|
Re: I have no idea what this means
ToddBlanchard wrote: Anyhow, the need to hamstring a perfectly good FreeBSD system and its decent UI and working consistently designed applications by running one or another of the ugly hacks atop "X: The First Fully Modular Software Disaster" (tm) escapes me.What can linux give me that I can't get with darwin?It's difficult to know in what order one should take the foregoing... pile. What the heck: Let's start at the end. 1. I very much doubt anyone around this particular board gives a rat's ass what operating system you run. ("Converting" people is a fetish of the proprietary-software mindset.) But, to answer your question, quickly comparing my old model M6411 iBook running OSX 10.2.5 and my even older Dell Inspiron 7000 laptop running Debian "sarge":
- Decent performance.
- A clean, non-junked-up implementation of the Openstep spec that doesn't clutter up your screen with cutesy graphical rubbish.
- Multiple workspaces (desktops) without the need to run poorly-tested extensions.
- Proper, well-tested journaling filesystems.
- A system whose configuration can be parsed and administered using standard editors and analysis tools.
- Decent remote graphics capability. (Please, I've used Timbuktu.)
- A future-proofed software environment that's in the hands of the users and developers rather than a company with uncertain prospects and a long and unglorious record of leaving user communities high and dry.
Your mileage will of course differ dramatically in that cute fashion exhibited by proprietary-software groupies the world over, but I'm writing basically for other people's benefit, not yours. 2. OSX/Darwin is of course not FreeBSD. I know FreeBSD. FreeBSD is a friend of mine. And Darwin ain't it. (I in fact have a FreeBSD 4.8 host in front of me. It's rock-solid and extremely high performance in every particular other than filesystems, where Linux 2.4/2.5 systems outpoint it handily.) Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
|
