Greed for oil, opium, means of production, gold or whatever commodity you may choose to fill in are the underlying reasons for most wars. As you pointed out, the reason we were there and not in Uganda is most probably the oil. My major point could be summarized as the "end justifies the mean".

Step back for a minute, Doug. If you look beyond the tragedy of the war itself, the US has no goals of subjecting the Iraqi or Afghani people to tyranny (except the tyranny of being one of our trading "partners"). Groups like Amnesty are not decrying "why we went into Iraq" but rather, "why are we not going to the other places where tyrants exists". A point I share and a point that has had me donating to this group for nearly 15 years. It's a subtle distinction, but very important to me.

The whole debate about "justification" is just an extension of the "am I my brother's keeper" argument. Strange, considering who it's coming from in this country (largely politically motivated Democrats). But if not the U.S., then who? Most countries have demonstrated a willingness to not give a rat's ass what happens in other countries so long as their own oil supplies, food supplies, and general well being are not threatened. Live and let die... That's the "moral high ground" position. :-)

I posted a few links in order to point out that tyrants left unchecked or "appeased" rarely turn out "good"... YMMV.

could you provide publisher, author/editor, or even a link. I have been reading a lot of history myself as of late (from rereading my old college World History textbooks to Crighton's Timeline). I spent quite a long time with the first link I posted, under the "Other Hidden Genocides by the Allies" section ( [link|http://home.att.net/~genophilia/mw1.htm|http://home.att.net/~genophilia/mw1.htm] ). I couldn't sleep very well, especially after the AN EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT passage. After the many accounts I've read about that war (from both published and eyewitness accounts), it is little wonder why we should never allow ourselves to let national identity (ethos) play a very major role in our thinking process as human beings. I realize that national pride has been pounded into our beady little skulls since birth, but it is fun to ponder lofty ideas such as "moral high ground" from any national entity.