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New Bush: "We don't need no steenkin' Wilderness!"
From the [link|http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0306020157jun02,1,1844110.story?coll=chi%2Dnews%2Dhed|Chicago Tribune] (this link will probably move in a day or two...):
COMB RIDGE, Utah -- Not far from the crest of this Navajo sandstone ridge, the cliffs speak of the ancient Anasazi Indians. Their petroglyphs--sparsely drawn deer and people marching in a procession--adorn a rock face looking out over a wide-open southeastern Utah landscape.

"You come here, and it's so humbling," said Veronica Egan, 57, an advocate for preserving America's remaining wild lands in a natural state. "You can't help but get perspective."

Yet it's not clear what will become of this place of red-streaked rocks and giant juniper trees, with mesas rising in the distance and delicate flowers blooming among sagebrush. In the late 1990s, the federal government decided the area might qualify for the highest level of protection available to public lands: designation as a wilderness area.

Now, under a new administration, the government has changed its mind, and this land is caught up in a heated controversy over the future of wilderness in America.

At the center is a new Bush administration policy, disclosed recently as part of a legal settlement with Utah, that calls for the Bureau of Land Management to stop assessing its land holdings for possible wilderness classification.

The bureau, the largest manager of public lands in the United States, oversees 264 million acres in 12 Western states, including the canyons of Comb Ridge dotted with ancient Indian cliff dwellings and relics, giant glaciers in Alaska, and vast desert grasslands in New Mexico.

"Essentially, what this administration is saying is `no more wilderness,'" said Michael Matz, executive director of the Campaign for America's Wilderness, one of several environmentalist groups that filed a lawsuit in May to stop the new policy from going into effect.

The policy flies in the face of consistent public support for setting aside more land for protection, Matz said, noting that the Interior Department's decision was made without public notice or comment. Interior spokesman John Wright said public involvement is not required in legal settlements.

Environmentalists are overstating the threat, said Rep. Chris Cannon (R-Utah), one of 28 House and Senate members from the West who called for the change in letters to Interior Secretary Gale Norton in the past few months. Congress retains the authority to specify which public lands should be classified as wilderness, and nothing prevents it from setting aside more lands, he said.

But timing may be everything in this controversy.

If oil and gas leases are granted or roads built before Congress acts, both sides concur that America's remaining wild lands could be marked irrevocably by human hands and could lose any ability to qualify for wilderness protection.

U.S. lands marked as wilderness must be in pristine condition; in turn, they enjoy the highest level of protection against potential development or despoilment. No roads are allowed, nor any motorized transportation. No logging, mining or oil and gas exploration is permitted. The land is set aside "untrammeled by man" for future generations, as noted in the landmark Wilderness Act of 1964.

Already, lawmakers are beginning to mobilize to counter what they consider a threat to unspoiled lands.

About 100 U.S. lawmakers urged the interior secretary to reconsider the new policies in a letter last week, saying, "You have effectively taken away an important management tool for the BLM to protect some of the finest remaining wild lands in America."

Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) is preparing a bill that would protect 2.6 million acres of federal lands in California, and Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) recently introduced legislation that would safeguard 1.6 million acres of public land in her state.

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) is championing a new version of America's Redrock Wilderness Act, which would set aside 9 million acres of federal land in Utah for protection. The Republican-dominated Utah congressional delegation does not support the bill, which has failed to pass in previous incarnations.

The political odds are against these proposals, and conservationists fear that whatever relief they promise may come too late.

With the administration's emphasis on oil and gas development, wells could be drilled relatively quickly in pristine areas such as western Colorado's Roan Plateau or the 1.8 million-acre Otero Mesa in southern New Mexico, an area of grasslands in the Chihuahuan Desert. Both areas sit on top of what are believed to be substantial energy reserves.

Concerned about the potential damage to the region's ecology, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson wrote Norton in May asking that the state be consulted before any development begins at Otero Mesa.

Utah lawmaker Cannon counters that while the environment is important, "I believe a robust American economy depends on energy production, and we have to strike a better balance on our public lands."

Deal seen as `1-2 punch'

Meanwhile, in what environmentalists are calling a "one-two punch," a separate April settlement between Utah and the Interior Department over local claims to rights-of-way on federal lands could open wilderness-quality areas to significant road development. About 15,000 rights-of-way claims are expected to be filed in the state.

The road settlement could set a precedent for other states to make similar claims, according to the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance, a conservationist group. Recognizing this, California officials sent a letter to the Interior Department two weeks ago requesting that local road claims in that state not be processed.

With roads would come the foreclosure of any opportunity to set aside these areas as wilderness, as well as a significant potential increase in use by all-terrain vehicles-- bringing more people and machines into these areas.

The new policies are a dramatic turnaround from those of the past decade and "the greatest threat to wilderness in almost 40 years," said Matz of the Campaign for America's Wilderness.

Since 1964, when landmark wilderness legislation was passed, Congress has set aside 106 million acres of Forest Service, National Parks, Fish and Wildlife, and Bureau of Land Management land in the National Wilderness Preservation System. More than half of the land is in Alaska.

Under the Clinton administration, several steps were taken to expand wilderness reviews. Local managers were directed to assess Bureau of Land Management properties for wilderness-like qualities, and institute interim protections on these lands if such characteristics were found.

Critics called this a way for the Clinton administration to create "de facto wilderness" without seeking congressional authorization, as well as restrict other possible activities on those lands, such as mining, logging and off-road vehicle use.

Westerners: `This is our land'

This kind of federal interference inflames passions in the West, where a "leave me and my lands alone" mentality holds significant sway.

"Don't come and dictate to me what I can do where I live," said Bill Redd, 70, a former southeastern Utah county commissioner who lives in Blanding. "This is our land, and we need to be able to live off of it."

In 1996, Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt directed the agency to classify an additional 2.6 million acres in Utah as "wilderness study areas." By law, such areas are treated as wilderness until Congress decides whether to grant that official status to the land.

That was too much for those in Utah who thought the government was taking away their land by administrative fiat.

The state and an association representing Utah counties sued, but most of their claims were thrown out by a federal appeals court in Denver. In March, Utah amended its lawsuit, which had been dormant for years, and reached a settlement with the Interior Department.

Now, under a strict and controversial reading of federal law, the department contends that the Clinton-era policies overstepped the agency's authority, and it has rescinded protection of all the lands deemed to be potential wilderness areas during the past decade.

Only the 22.8 million acres formally identified by the Bureau of Land Management during a 15-year congressionally mandated inventory, which ended in 1991, will be managed as wilderness unless Congress decides to enact legislation creating more bureau wilderness areas.

About 3.2 million acres in Utah are included in the 1991 wilderness inventory. That's grossly inadequate, said Heidi McIntosh, conservation director for the Southern Utah alliance, which organized a survey of the state's lands in 1990s. Based on documentation assembled by more than 500 volunteers who crisscrossed the state on foot, the group argues that 6 million additional acres qualify as wilderness.

"That's just ludicrous," said Redd, a former sheepherder, miner and sawmill worker. "We have already got all the protected land we need. The rest has oil, copper, uranium and minerals in it, and it ought to be produced."

Whatever decisions are made will have long-term repercussions. "[Wilderness] can't be created," said Egan, interim executive director of Great Old Broads for Wilderness, an activist group based in Durango, Colo. "It can only be destroyed."


I say:

What, did this "administration" rehire Earl Butz and James Watt? (Harumph...more retreads!). But hey, who cares if its beautiful, or if there's nothing else like it anywhere in the world. There's exploitin' to do, so let's get to it before some tree-hugging environmentalist does something to curtail our profits!

[insert The Sign here]
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New lets declare the eastern seaboard wilderness
evacuate all the cities to brownsville texas, give zero compensation and jail anyone who whines about it. that will treat em those that dont like wilderness.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

"I hit him so hard in the head his dog shat a turd in the shape of Jesus" Leonard Pine
New herring-comma-red
From the article:
U.S. lands marked as wilderness must be in pristine condition; in turn, they enjoy the highest level of protection against potential development or despoilment. No roads are allowed, nor any motorized transportation. No logging, mining or oil and gas exploration is permitted. The land is set aside "untrammeled by man" for future generations, as noted in the landmark Wilderness Act of 1964. [emphasis added]

Too late for the eastern seaboard, Box. But nice try...please play again....
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Oh sure...
...ignore the state's right and just pound everybody with the federal governments power to walk in and say "who gives a shit whats yours and what you want to do with it...we say its ours...so tough!

Yep...thats sure the precedent I want to see stand...
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New C'mon BeeP, you actually believe that?
I seem to recall a certain state's rights issue about 2 1/2 years ago that you were foursquare in favor of "just pound[ing] everybody with the federal governments power to walk in and say "who gives a shit whats yours and what you want to do with it...we say its ours...so tough!"

So why is this different now? Is it just that this issue falls on the other side of the noecon boundary, while that old issue 2 1/2 years ago fell on "your" side? Hmmm? Could it be? Huuh? Huuh?

A little less transparency would be refreshing, here.
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New As long as its not...
...your "wilderness" that gets stolen.

This one is pretty straighforward. The fact is that Clinton >stole< a sizeable percentage of Utah from the people of that state. Utah wanted it back and got it.

Consult with Utah about designating a portion, come to an agreement with the state and I will support its designation as a wilderness area.

If at a later time the state wants to remove that designation on any part of that land, it should be their right to do so. Same situation as you argue state versus local. Local should trump state.

And I think you are trying to equate standard setting with outright control with your comment about which side of the "neocon" issue this is. My view is alot closer to Harry Browne here.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New "Local should trump state"
except if it it an election that the Repos can stealtake with Federal help.

Then, its a different story, isn't it?
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New Think we've been through that.
Fed decision was bad...but the state ordered counts would've ended with the same results.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New That's not the point.
The point is: State's Rights are good, except...

...when I don't like the outcome. (For various values of 'I', like, for example, certain Repos, neoCons and assorted Supreme Court justices with an agenda.)
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New I know it isn't
But I didn't support the SC decision. Thought it set a bad precedent.

I just got very tired of hearing everyone say that it had an effect on the outcome...which it didn't.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Had a profound impact on outcome
If a single Republican member of the court had a shred respect for the rule of law or the concept of a federation of States or judicial conservatism, or pretty much any of the values they touted during their selection processes, Bush would be a legitimate President.

The fact that Gore would have lost anyway (due to his failure to request enough recounts, not due to the actual votes cast) no more clears the kingmakers than an autopsy revealing that the victim was about to die of natural causes absolves a murderer.
----
Whatever
New Not on the outcome...on the precedent set.
The action was more akin to Dr Jack. Otherwise I'm ok with your assessment.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Dr. Jack if he claimed to be pro-life.
----
Whatever
New Complex issue
Bush is applying his usual hamfist to a rather complex issue here.

On one hand, people living in a state need to be free to develop that land in thst state. On the other side, it's also a good thing to preserve the wilderness and environment, both for future generations and our selves.

Balancing those two issues against each other is difficult. And made all the more difficult because ecological areas can't be neatly divided up along convient lines. You can't take 10 trees here and ten trees there and another ten way over yonder and call it a forest, it has to be one continous unbroken segement.

The current White House isn't even trying, as long as the land is going to some company they are going out of their way to give in.

Jay
New FINALLY! A reply with some thought.
Thanks Jay!

I agree with your points (all of them). It is a complex issue, and I'm not entirely sure that the are should be designated a Wilderness.

However, the hamfisted (great word, BTW) that the Shrubbies want to take to it allows for neither the correct amount of thought that a complex issue like this deserves (To Bush, complex == bad; must make complex == simple so it can be easily dealt away), nor for any compromise between the two (heavily polarized) camps.

So why aren't you running Interior? (You're clearly more qualified than any of the hamhocks currently occupying the posts there.)
jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
New the hamhocks running interior
notice I say running, not the appointed anointed are all sierra club members who beleive that only the elite may play in King John's Forest, the ordinary may not touch it on pain of inprisonment.
Didja ever personally meet these creatures and try to have a conversation? I have, nasty gollum like folk.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

"I hit him so hard in the head his dog shat a turd in the shape of Jesus" Leonard Pine
     Bush: "We don't need no steenkin' Wilderness!" - (jb4) - (15)
         lets declare the eastern seaboard wilderness - (boxley) - (1)
             herring-comma-red - (jb4)
         Oh sure... - (bepatient) - (9)
             C'mon BeeP, you actually believe that? - (jb4) - (8)
                 As long as its not... - (bepatient) - (7)
                     "Local should trump state" - (jb4) - (6)
                         Think we've been through that. - (bepatient) - (5)
                             That's not the point. - (jb4) - (4)
                                 I know it isn't - (bepatient) - (3)
                                     Had a profound impact on outcome - (mhuber) - (2)
                                         Not on the outcome...on the precedent set. - (bepatient) - (1)
                                             Dr. Jack if he claimed to be pro-life. -NT - (mhuber)
         Complex issue - (JayMehaffey) - (2)
             FINALLY! A reply with some thought. - (jb4) - (1)
                 the hamhocks running interior - (boxley)

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