Post #10,294
9/23/01 8:23:00 PM
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TIME: Cropduster manual found in terrorist hideouts
[link|http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,175951,00.html |Cropduster Manual Discovered] Saturday, Sep. 22, 2001
New York -- U.S. law enforcement officials have found a manual on the operation of cropdusting equipment while searching suspected terrorist hideouts, government sources tell TIME magazine in an issue out on Monday, Sept. 24th.
The discovery has added to concerns among government counterterrorism
experts that the bin Laden conspirators may have been planning - or may
still be planning -to disperse biological or chemical agents from a
cropdusting plane normally used for agricultural purposes.
Among the belongings of suspected terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui, sources tell TIME, were manuals showing how to operate cropdusting equipment that could be used to spray fast-killing toxins into the air.
The discovery resulted in the grounding of all cropdusters nationwide on Sunday Sept. 16th. The dusters have been allowed back up, but are not allowed to take off or land from what traffic controllers refer to as Class B airspace, or the skies around major cities. In related news, the FAA has issued the [link|http://38.200.9.137/010915tfr.html#0398|following NOTAM:] FDC 1/0398 FDC ATTENTION ALL OPERATORS - SPECIAL NOTICE. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL
FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR 91.139 (EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES), FOR REASONS OF NATIONAL SECURITY ALL PAR 137 (AGRICULTUREAL/CROPDUSTER) OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED ON SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 23,2001, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY AND UNTIL 12:05 A.M. LOCAL SEPTEMBER 24,2001, IN EACH TIME ZONE. IN ADDITION, NO AIRCRAFT CAPABLE OF OR EQUIPPED FOR AGRICULTURAL OPERATIONS MAY OPERATE UNDER ANY OTHER F.A.R. PART CERTIFICATION DURING THIS TIMEFRAME. THE ONLY EXCEPTION IS FOR PART 137 FIRE FIGHTING TANKERS FLYING UNDER PUBLIC USE AND EMERGENCY AUTHORIZATION FOR FIRE FIGHTING PURPOSES. THIS NOTAM APPLIES TO THE 48 CONTIGUOUS STATES IN U.S.DOMESTIC AIRSPACE. --
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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Post #10,348
9/24/01 10:50:39 AM
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Well, I guess I don't have to hide this one any more...
One of my first thoughts after the WTC incident was that they should ground all the cropdusters - and now somebody else has said why.
I've still go a couple other ideas, but as before, I'm not saying them.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #10,356
9/24/01 11:56:27 AM
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Nah, has been thrashed out many places.
Problem is, without cropdusters, there won't be a cotton crop this year.
(And various other things they do, they stay very busy this time of year).
So the cotton farmers go under. And the pilots with the cropdusters.
But of course, its a problem - but more of a problem would be a *regular* plane dumping something (its not as obvious as a cropduster, for one).
Disruption of the water supply is far easier, and causes a lot more hardship.
I've still go a couple other ideas, but as before, I'm not saying them.
Nothing personal, but I think they're ahead of ya. :)
I really don't think you're capable of being mean enough to formulate a really, really, good terrorist plan. :)
Addison
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Post #10,358
9/24/01 12:02:31 PM
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Don't worry about that.
Under my kind, caring veneer lurks the heart of a person who knows What Evil Men Do.
And, like I said before, it's not so much that I'm afraid the induhviduals who might perpetrate such acts might get hold of this information - as I am afraid that my own government might decide that I'm a SOURCE of such information.
Same goes for the rest of you.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #10,522
9/26/01 7:05:30 AM
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Known threats are better than unknown ones
I sincerely doubt you've got any scenarios that haven't been concieved of and/or discussed openly elsewhere. Security against terrorists is a lot like security online: it's easier to devise defenses against threats which are known (or realize which are not readily defended against) than to fight unknown bugaboos.
I'd not fret about speaking out.
One early conversation I had on this matter was that there are some structural similarities between terrorism and the free software movement: large numbers of largely independent cells. Actually, my comment was "now you know how Microsoft's felt -- trying to figure out where to strike agains the free software movement". There are also some key differences: for the most part, free software folk are white hats -- there's nothing inherently illegal (DMCA and SSSCA excepted) with what we're doing. We can communicate openly. The black hats can't. We should use our open communications channels as an advantage: we can cover more ground, more flexibly, than the black hats. Secrecy is ultimately, in many caces, a hinderance, not a help. Exception: specific, time-sensitive data.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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Post #10,350
9/24/01 11:04:59 AM
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That's eerily specific
OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED ON SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 23,2001, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY AND UNTIL 12:05 A.M. LOCAL SEPTEMBER 24,2001, IN EACH TIME ZONE. That sounds like someone has some hard evidence of a specific timetable. I wonder what they've got. We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html|Thomas Friedman]
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