Post #102,440
5/18/03 11:33:48 AM
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violence, youth, crime and justice
[link|http://www.sptimes.com/2003/05/18/Southpinellas/_They_both_could_have.shtml|http://www.sptimes.c..._could_have.shtml]
article about teenagers drinking and fighting. One ends up dead. In my opinion rightly so. Others claim it was a crime and wonder why the one kid just didnt take his beating and leave quietly. Why should anyone "take" a beating?
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
"I hit him so hard in the head his dog shat a turd in the shape of Jesus" Leonard Pine
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Post #102,450
5/18/03 2:14:46 PM
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Kid deserved it.
1) Be an aggressive drunk 19 year old
2) Claim you have a gun.
3) Beatup a 13 and a 15 year old.
4) Demand money (just a joke, sure!)
5) Attack
Mom says:
"Why wasn't this fight just a fist fight?" she asked. "What gave this kid a right to pull a knife and to stab?"
Because your animal of a son should have been put down like a rabid dog.
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Post #102,451
5/18/03 3:49:25 PM
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Similar thing here a couple of weeks ago
West allis, Wisconsin. Sounded real bad - kid gets tire-ironed to death, guy who did it walks.
My wife had a chance meeting (her brother is in the Secret Service, she runs into various law enforcement types a lot) with one of the cops on the case (he also helped clean out Dahmer's apartment a while back) and he said the "victim" had already assaulted the guy with the tire iron twice that day, and came at him with a 6 foot 2X4. So the guy threw his tire iron at him, at about a 10 foot range.
The media version sounded like a kid was bludgeoned to death during a fight. The other version sounds like the message of the tire iron wasn't so much "die" as "leave me the hell alone, I really, really mean it."
And, of course, the kid who died had been a great gentle kind-hearted kid with lots of friends and a great future ahead of him who never would have done such a thing. The kind of kid who never got into any trouble, except for when he did. I've noticed that the kid who got killed is never a punk who pushed too hard and got what he should have expected.
I don't like it that anybody gets killed. It isn't some kind of justice. But actions have consequences, not always in proportion to the action, but more or less predictable.
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Post #102,520
5/19/03 8:40:04 AM
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Had one in Cleveland a couple of years ago
Six guys out for a bachelor party on a Friday night. Wedding is the next day. After making last call at two bars and getting turned away at a third, they see a couple of guys sitting across the street sharing a six-pack. They go over and "ask" for a couple of beers, to toast the coming nuptials. The two guys tell them ... well, probably a couple of colorful things, but it came down to "no".
When the six of them tried to take the beer from the two, one of the two pulled a knife. The groom died, one of the others and the friend of the guy with the knife end up in the hospital. And of course friends of the groom wanted to know why a beer was worth killing a guy.
Oh, did I mention the six guys were well known to the local police, because they got in drunken brawls on a regular basis? And that the guy with the knife was a former Marine? Guess the bullys finally picked the wrong guy. Too bad for them, I say.
And one other thing: The bride had her wedding dress dyed black and wore it to the trial, where the guy was acquitted.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #102,632
5/19/03 7:08:59 PM
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What ever happened to fist fights?
But there.. you might actually experience normal pain - whereas a trigger or blade may save you from the unutterable agony of a shiner, or worse: of being shown second-best.
Something appears to have snapped in umm evolution? Techno makes it so easy to kill w/o mussing clothes. Omnipresent lascivious fondling/marketing of guns is surely in there somewhere. And the crashfotainment hammers on that angle from cradle onwards through post-grad Nintendo. Could there be any connection or catalyst?
Nahhhhh.
Ashton
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Post #102,642
5/19/03 7:49:30 PM
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Disagree - Equalizer
I'm short, in lousy shape, limp a bit, and wouldn't survive 2 punches
before going down. Most likely my head will hit the curb and I'll die.
Why should I accept the fact that evolution favored some idiot physically
who chooses to cause me harm?
People who are used to getting in fights for the fun of it should
be killed. Simple enough. They cause harm to people for FUN.
They do not deserve the oxygen they waste.
Note: I don't own any guns. Probably a good thing, ehh?
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Post #102,647
5/19/03 8:12:33 PM
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In other primates...
Fistfights take place a lot farther along the escalating agression line than the kinds of gestures that most resemble firing a handgun.
A fight usualy goes through a fairly predictable escalation, which is pretty well standardized throughout the higher primates. There is a fairly high probability of the encounter breaking off at each escalation point - on the order of 50%. In other words, about half the time that a primate or group of primates starts screaming at another, that's the end of it. And about half the time that they progress to aggressive gestures, that's the end of it. And so on.
Shooting appears to me to be somewhere between aggressive gestures and throwing shit. Which is several steps short of full contact with injury (fistfight). When a fight is just a matter of non-thinking primate behavior and not really about anything (which I think covers the vast majority of cases) there is shooting long before there would have been a fistfight, and therefore in many cases where there would have been no fistfight, because throwing shit (OK, that's rare in humans, but there are substitutes) would have been enough, or shoving, or wrestling.
And the peacable individual who could most use the equalization is less likely to pack heat than the fighter. The fighter goes out knowing there is likely to be violence. The peacable guy goes out out knowing he's very unlikely to need equalization.
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Whatever
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Post #102,817
5/20/03 3:05:55 PM
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ICLRPD!
Shooting appears to me to be somewhere between aggressive gestures and throwing shit. jb4
"We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's."
Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems
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Post #102,988
5/21/03 4:23:04 PM
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Yes, my sentiments too + a possible First Cause?
Only you said it much better.
As *lethal* force has itself become not merely cartoonish - but omnipresent in that beast-conditioning which we euphemistically call entertainment .. then even the physical pain caused another (let alone any excruciating emotional and other forms) -
is not even a concern deep-down, in that doped-state that today passes for 'consciousness'. Quite the reverse: it is a source of mirth [Oooh.. Loook! - His Head Exploded and they slowed-it-down so we. could. relish. every. millisecond.]
Wait'll ya see the *New* HDTV attachment; remember ink-jet printers? the razor blade scam that trapped millions and made Murican former-mfgs. into mere importing clerks, as well as bandits?
Squirt-Vision Don your [supplied] PVC gown; sit Reeel Close: and Experience!! The Splatter!
[does anyone doubt ... It's Coming ??]
And when this conditioning begins concomitant with catechism and other primitive branding- numbing- rites (even without ever hearing of Pavlov): WTF did we Expect?
Posit: could it begin with the ritual mutilation of the penis? performed on the least-capable of Resisting; serving no purpose save 'we've always done this' + utter BS about 'hygiene'! (as-if All were as dull as the medico trade hope$; nay.. grows rich from fulfilled expectation$).
Could this be the First Intentional deSensitization, which sets the stage for all which follows? Just a possibility, nor am I the first to suggest..
Ashton
(Who isn't ..mutilated, solely because of a prescient choice quite early-on; that of selecting a Mother who would tell the AMA-drones to Fuck Off! when they presented her with a list of available options for supporting their boat payments. She also later passed on the 'remove tonsils / appendices' manias + a few others. Did I mention that this lady was no fucking Dummy? Lucky moi.)
Marketing: more addictive than heroin, but without the sense of peaceful well being. This we call.. satisfiction.
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Post #102,825
5/20/03 3:41:02 PM
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I dont like to fight, dont like pain, I go out of my way to
avoid them, so if you insist that I fight anyway better wear a welders mask and a hockey cup otherwise you will have dificulty using testicles for eyeballs and a retina is a damn poor relacement for a vas deferens. Fist fights are what bullies excuse their behavior as. Since a lot of bullies know some people pack weapons they are more circumspectful than they would ordinarily be.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
"I hit him so hard in the head his dog shat a turd in the shape of Jesus" Leonard Pine
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Post #103,053
5/22/03 3:23:14 AM
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Re: Since a lot of bullies know some people pack weapons...
I think you give them too much credit.
Usualy it's basic dominance behavior that doesn't involve any thought at all. And it happens on a level where guns don't exist - at least not until...
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