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New "said Powell"
Nigerian Uranium anyone?

After a seemingly unending stream of lies from this admin, you expect anyone to believe them now?
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
New Link please.
Silverlock writes:
Nigerian Uranium anyone?

After a seemingly unending stream of lies from this admin, you expect anyone to believe them now?


Powell didn't say anything about uranium from Africa in his [link|http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2003/iraq-030205-powell-un-17300pf.htm|presentation ] to the UN SC on 5 February.

He doesn't mention anything abour uranium in his remarks to the UN SC on [link|http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/07/sprj.irq.un.transcript.powell/index.html|March 7].

In [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59403-2003Mar7¬Found=true|this] story from the Washington Post on March 8 it says:

Documents that purportedly showed Iraqi officials shopping for uranium in Africa two years ago were deemed "not authentic" after careful scrutiny by U.N. and independent experts, Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), told the U.N. Security Council.

ElBaradei also rejected a key Bush administration claim -- made twice by the president in major speeches and repeated by Secretary of State Colin L. Powell yesterday -- that Iraq had tried to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes to use in centrifuges for uranium enrichment. Also, ElBaradei reported finding no evidence of banned weapons or nuclear material in an extensive sweep of Iraq using advanced radiation detectors.


I haven't seen any evidence that Powell said Iraq was trying to get uranium from Niger (not Nigeria). He may have mentioned the UK report (on some other occasion), but I don't think he was basing his conclusions on that report.

He and the US administration certainly disagreed with the IAEA on the aluminum tubes.

If you have a link, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New "this admin", "them"
A shill for a liar is a liar by proxy.


[link|http://www.bushwatch.com/iraqevidence.htm|Here's] a decent source for lies specifically related to "evidence" of Iraqi WMDs.
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
New Riiiight.
Go ahead then. Believe the Iraqi Information Minister instead ;-)

Iraq would never sponsor [link|http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/abunidal.html|terrorists.]
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New But.. but - he has the Courage of His Convictions!____too.
New Where is that guy?
If he spoke english, he could easily become a US talk show celebrity.

He's already a web celeb to rival [link|http://www.ikissyou.org/mahir/|Mahir] and the [link|http://www.twin-towers.net/images/uhoh.jpg|WTC] [link|http://www.touristofdeath.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/bigcockguy.jpg|tourist] [link|http://www.touristofdeath.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/oswaldo_crop.jpg|of] [link|http://www.touristofdeath.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/tgmodesto.jpg|death].




"Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes.
Contestants in a suicidal race."
    - Synchronicity II - The Police
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:25:52 AM EDT
New yup, "15 minutes of fame" Net Time
could last you about 100000 miles and a hell of a lot of ouzo with company.




the Wacki Iraqi in Khaki
New I'll agree on that one.
Do you agree that the current admin lied their way into war? That *was* the point of my last post, I thought.
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
New If it was the truth...
...then it >was< bent pretty badly.

History will be the judge.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New But remember
History will be the judge.

The history books are always written by the wienners.
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
New Certainly the aluminum tubes use was a disagreement...
but the basis of that disagreement - indeed given Powell's statements, his views on it's purpose - was that the danger of those tubes was primarily to build a nuclear weapon.


Since 1998, his efforts to reconstitute his nuclear program have been focused on acquiring the third and last component: sufficient fissile material to produce a nuclear explosion. To make the fissile material, he needs to develop an ability to enrich uranium. Saddam Hussein is determined to get his hands on a nuclear bomb.

He is so determined that has made repeated covert attempts to acquire high-specification aluminum tubes from 11 different countries, even after inspections resumed. These tubes are controlled by the Nuclear Suppliers Group precisely because they can be used as centrifuges for enriching uranium.

By now, just about everyone has heard of these tubes and we all know that there are differences of opinion. There is controversy about what these tubes are for. Most U.S. experts think they are intended to serve as rotors in centrifuges used to enrich uranium. Other experts, and the Iraqis themselves, argue that they are really to produce the rocket bodies for a conventional weapon, a multiple rocket launcher.

Let me tell you what is not controversial about these tubes. First, all the experts who have analyzed the tubes in our possession agree that they can be adapted for centrifuge use.

Second, Iraq had no business buying them for any purpose. They are banned for Iraq. I am no expert on centrifuge tubes, but this is an old army trooper. I can tell you a couple things.

First, it strikes me as quite odd that these tubes are manufactured to a tolerance that far exceeds U.S. requirements for comparable rockets. Maybe Iraqis just manufacture their conventional weapons to a higher standard than we do, but I don't think so.

Second, we actually have examined tubes from several different batches that were seized clandestinely before they reached Baghdad. What we notice in these different batches is a progression to higher and higher levels of specification, including in the latest batch an anodized coating on extremely smooth inner and outer surfaces.

Why would they continue refining the specifications? Why would they continuing refining the specification, go to all that trouble for something that, if it was a rocket, would soon be blown into shrapnel when it went off?

The high-tolerance aluminum tubes are only part of the story. We also have intelligence from multiple sources that Iraq is attempting to acquire magnets and high-speed balancing machines. Both items can be used in a gas centrifuge program to enrich uranium.

In 1999 and 2000, Iraqi officials negotiated with firms in Romania, India, Russia and Slovenia for the purchase of a magnet production plant. Iraq wanted the plant to produce magnets weighing 20 to 30 grams. That's the same weight as the magnets used in Iraq's gas centrifuge program before the Gulf War.

This incident, linked with the tubes, is another indicator of Iraq's attempt to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program.
[link|http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/arms/03020544.htm| Source ]

So...here's the question... if Powell was right - where's the uranium that these tubes were going to enrich?
New Your quote reproduced one of my links.
FWIW.

So...here's the question... if Powell was right - where's the uranium that these tubes were going to enrich?

There's uranium [link|http://www.iaea.org/worldatom/Press/Focus/IaeaIraq/unscreport_290103.html|in Iraq].

Iraq had successfully concentrated uranium from its own ore and produced industrial quantities of feed material (UCl4) for electromagnetic isotopic separation (EMIS). There were no indications that the production of feed material for centrifuge enrichment (UF6) went beyond laboratory level.


As we know, absence of evidence isn't the same as evidence of absence. We can argue about whether there's reason to agree with IAEA's conclusions about Iraq's nuclear weapons program, or whether to agree with the US and UK statements about it. We can argue about whether the aluminum tubes in question were useful in a centrifuge program. But it's clear that Iraq had the knowledge and the means to produce weapons-grade uranium.

For me, it comes down to Iraq's behavior. Iraq gave little reason for others to believe its statements that it had ended its prohibited weapons and missiles programs. It was still importing prohibited materials (as the aluminum tubes were even if they were only for rockets) in contravention of the UN sanctions. It never, as the UN demanded, fully accounted for the materials it claimed to have destroyed. It was still playing games with the inspection process - not giving a full accounting, threatening scientists with death if they were interviewed, etc.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New An interesting argument...
(BTW: I know. I wanted to quote from Powell extensively, since the majority of his argument was based on the possibility of Iraq restarting their nuclear weapon's program with primary evidence based on the aluminum tubes and magnets. Thus the argument and reference to Niger's uranium.)


For me, it comes down to Iraq's behavior. Iraq gave little reason for others to believe its statements that it had ended its prohibited weapons and missiles programs. It was still importing prohibited materials (as the aluminum tubes were even if they were only for rockets) in contravention of the UN sanctions. It never, as the UN demanded, fully accounted for the materials it claimed to have destroyed. It was still playing games with the inspection process - not giving a full accounting, threatening scientists with death if they were interviewed, etc.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Iraq was allow to have rockets provided they were of a limited range?

In any case, I totally agree with you on this argument. Iraq was playing schenigans.

What bothers me though, is the schenigans that others have played. Someone forged those Niger documents. Like it or not, US official did claim that Iraq was 6 months from having nuclear weapons.
Expand Edited by Simon_Jester May 2, 2003, 02:16:06 PM EDT
New Iraq was permitted rockets, but ...
Due to the sanctions, they weren't permitted to import high-strength aluminum unless approved by the UN. I haven't the time to look up the relevent UN SC resolution but imagine it's 678 or 687.

A highly critical ISIS report on the administration claims about the Al tubes is [link|http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/al_tubes.html|here].

The CIA said that the procurements were highly secret, despite Iraq being able to buy the tubes on the open market. In fact, Iraq could not buy the tubes on the open market. Iraq has been forbidden to possess high-strength aluminum regardless of its use unless such an order was approved by the United Nations and subject to monitoring, an impossibility after the inspectors left Iraq in 1998. But these orders were not that secret, according to a US expert. The Iraqi trading company charged with ordering the tubes often sent facsimiles from its Baghdad office to many foreign companies, including the exact dimensions and tolerances in its request. Facsimiles are easy for intelligence agencies to intercept. This method is very different from Iraq's well documented highly clandestine procurement techniques. Click here for more information about Iraqi procurement.


Cheers,
Scott.
     CNN: High-ranking al-Qaeda terrorist captured in Iraq - (marlowe) - (16)
         What have you got against the Kurds? - (Silverlock) - (15)
             C'mon now. - (bepatient) - (14)
                 "said Powell" - (Silverlock) - (13)
                     Link please. - (Another Scott) - (12)
                         "this admin", "them" - (Silverlock) - (7)
                             Riiiight. - (bepatient) - (6)
                                 But.. but - he has the Courage of His Convictions!____too. -NT - (Ashton) - (2)
                                     Where is that guy? - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                         yup, "15 minutes of fame" Net Time - (Ashton)
                                 I'll agree on that one. - (Silverlock) - (2)
                                     If it was the truth... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                         But remember - (jbrabeck)
                         Certainly the aluminum tubes use was a disagreement... - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                             Your quote reproduced one of my links. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                 An interesting argument... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                     Iraq was permitted rockets, but ... - (Another Scott)

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
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