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New Applying Economic Theory to Software
[link|http://www.freeroller.net/page/ceperez/20030331|http://www.freerolle.../ceperez/20030331]

Interesting comparison of property rights in economics to encapsulation in software.
Regards,
John Urbeg
New I am awaiting the Relational Economy
God is the President
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Re: I am awaiting the Relational Economy
So will you be contrasting relational to an economic theory for us?

By the way, the comparison of property rights to encapsulation tends to fly in the face of your OO = Communisim bit on your web site.
Regards,
John Urberg
New OO communism
By the way, the comparison of property rights to encapsulation tends to fly in the face of your OO = Communisim bit on your web site.

(quote from my webpage)

Why OOP Reminds Me of Communism

Economic communism spread like wildfire in the first half of the 20th century because it had such appealing ideals and ideas. Like OO, these ideals were very seductive on paper. Intellectuals all over the world were drawn in by its concepts in droves. However, the complexities and dynamism of human nature proved not to favor economic communism as a productive model when it hit the road of the real world. It was the test of the real world that deflated the socialism hype, not intellectual analysis for the most part.

(Perhaps economic communism allows for more equality, but mostly by making everybody equally poor. Further, it forms a kind of "social currency" based on schmoosing and favoritism that is nearly impossible to objectively measure and tax. Thus, it is still not really class-less, but simply makes classes harder to measure because the "currency" is mostly social in nature. In other words, it does not eliminate inequality, but instead makes it harder to identify.)

I am frankly jealous of OOP's cliches; or to be more specific, jealous of OOP's "cliche-ability". The cliches sound so convincing on first impression, yet take many pages and many tedious change-scenario analyses to de-hype. Like socialism, bashing capitalistic greed is easy to do and makes for great, gut-level sound-bytes. A counter-argument to such is rather long, and assumes a decent education and attention span.
________________
oop.ismad.com
New This is just idiotic
Bryce, you must be extremely lazy - because I know you aren't stupid. You might as well say "OOP is like string theory" or "OOP is like growing genetically altered food".

Why can't you get it through your head that OOP is just a method? If your program is based on randomly timed events, and it needs to do more than one thing at at time, chances are the OOP model is going to fit better as an event handler. Is that too complex to understand?

You're pretending to think.
-drl
New mulitasking brag?
Why can't you get it through your head that OOP is just a method? If your program is based on randomly timed events, and it needs to do more than one thing at at time, chances are the OOP model is going to fit better as an event handler. Is that too complex to understand?

I guess so. Give me a typical biz example. If you cummunicate between events mostly via tables, then things like transactions and A.C.I.D. handle much of the semaphore (multi-process conflict) issues for ya. Think of it like little client/server user-lettes or c/s-lettes. (Damn! I coined another silly term. Backlash mounting I am sure.)

(I forgot to add "OO is better at multi-process handling" to my 30-item "OO Myths" debunking website list. Thanks for reminding me)

might as well say "OOP is like string theory"

String theory has catchy cliches? I missed 'em.
________________
oop.ismad.com
Expand Edited by tablizer May 1, 2003, 05:22:05 PM EDT
Expand Edited by tablizer May 1, 2003, 05:24:13 PM EDT
Expand Edited by tablizer May 1, 2003, 05:24:54 PM EDT
New Even More Idiotic
I'm doing OOP, but my OOPs are tables. That's really swift.

In physics, we find laws that are independent of the coordinate system. All you are doing is advocating a particular coordinate system. Who the hell cares? The point is - if you need an event hander, you do it in OOP, because it is well suited to an inner loop. If you have a straightforward computation, you do it with a simple, efficient langauge construct that deals with step by step. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Most likely someone told you that running computers is a science. So, you're looking for something "scientific". This isn't science - it's method. The elegance and truth comes in using the proper method.

Read Feynman's Lectures, the section on "scientific imagination".


-drl
New I don't know what you are talking about. You are wondering
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Re: OO communism
Ahh, so your comparison had nothing to do with economics. Your comparison is still wrong at this point:


However, the complexities and dynamism of human nature proved not to favor economic communism as a productive model when it hit the road of the real world.


OO has been applied in the real world and it continues to thrive and grow. Witness Microsofts new development (.NET) platform is now completely OO. So there you go, OO has hit the road of the real world and succeeded, just as free market economies have succeeded (see the original posting for an interesting comparison of encapslation to property rights -- a foundation of a free market economy)

Another reason for OO's success can be found here: [link|http://www.dreamsongs.com/ObjectsHaveNotFailedNarr.html|http://www.dreamsong...otFailedNarr.html]


Another weakness of procedural and functional programming is that their viewpoint assumes a process by which \ufffdinputs\ufffd are transformed into \ufffdoutputs\ufffd; there is equal concern for correctness and for termination (and proofs thereof). But as we have connected millions of computers to form the Internet and the World Wide Web, as we have caused large independent sets of state to interact\ufffdI am speaking of databases, automated sensors, mobile devices, and (most of all) people\ufffdin this highly interactive, distributed setting, the procedural and functional models have failed, another reason why objects have become the dominant model. Ongoing behavior, not completion, is now of primary interest. Indeed, object-oriented programming had its origins in efforts to simulate the ongoing behavior of interacting real-world entities\ufffdthus the programming language SIMULA was born.


Now if we could just get an intelligent response from you rather than another link to your website...
Regards,
John Urberg
New Input-Process-Output
OO has been applied in the real world and it continues to thrive and grow. Witness Microsofts new development (.NET) platform is now completely OO.

Microsoft has historically been ambivelant about OOP. However, when Java started stealing market share from VB and MS-C++, they pretty much cloned Java. Gates and Co are primarily interested in crushing competition, not paradigm battles. If assembler came back in style, they would promote MS-Assebler like living hell if needed to beat others.

Besides, many OO fanatics complain that most actual code written in Java and .NET is generally pretty procedural in nature. Further, I don't believe the "free market" always finds the best technical solutions. Hence we have things like QWERTY, Windows, and COBOL that won't go away. Evolution even fails to always produce the optimum design, at least in the shorter run. Humans have their scrotum on the outside, where it gets smacked easily. Other animals have solved this problem and don't need it "air cooled". OO is a big scrotum.

Regarding your quote, it is a bit vague. But I disagree that the input-process-output model has failed. Events in event driven programming (like GUI's) are i-p-o based. We just change the database or screen state instead of punched cards and tape these days. GUI's and HTTP are based on i-p-o. I don't see how it has failed (in general). Show me a specific failure in a typical biz app.

As far as "better modeling the real world", see the link about that on my webpage.

I will take IPO + relational over OO any day.

Further, it seems the author of that article is an "array programmer" based on his writings. He does not "get" relational.
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Ah... Thanks for this admission!
Captain Clarity:
OO is a big scrotum.
Whereas Procedural Programming, on the other hand, has extremely small balls...


Regarding your quote, it is a bit vague.
Muahahahahahahah!


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New Maybe 1000 small balls are better than 2 big ones
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Sure - but why would anyone think the numbers go that way?
     Applying Economic Theory to Software - (johnu) - (12)
         I am awaiting the Relational Economy - (tablizer) - (11)
             Re: I am awaiting the Relational Economy - (johnu) - (10)
                 OO communism - (tablizer) - (9)
                     This is just idiotic - (deSitter) - (3)
                         mulitasking brag? - (tablizer) - (2)
                             Even More Idiotic - (deSitter) - (1)
                                 I don't know what you are talking about. You are wondering -NT - (tablizer)
                     Re: OO communism - (johnu) - (4)
                         Input-Process-Output - (tablizer) - (3)
                             Ah... Thanks for this admission! - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                 Maybe 1000 small balls are better than 2 big ones -NT - (tablizer) - (1)
                                     Sure - but why would anyone think the numbers go that way? -NT - (CRConrad)

Iffn' you ain't the granddaddy of all liars!
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