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New Re: I didn't say it was all OK
Spiceware sez:
If the Federal Goverment was pressuring Clear Channel, then sure, that'd be a major problem. However, all that I've seen and heard...points to "the public" applying the pressure, not the federal government.

The issue of how spontaneous that "public" pressure might be has been addressed elsewhere in this thread. Are the feds "pressuring" Clear Channel? Unlikely. Is Clear Channel perhaps doing some "proactive" sucking up to the administration (its Justice Department may, after all, someday need to write up a lengthy justification for not crying "monopoly" when Clear Channel devours all the remaining radio stations). What do you think, kids?
One station in Kansas City, Missouri held a Dixie "chicken toss" party Friday morning, where Chick critics were encouraged to dump the group's tapes, CDs and concert tickets into trash cans. [emphasis added: there's the public will in action, even if we have to, heh-heh, prime the pump]

Houston country station KILT pulled the band's records from its playlist -- at least temporarily -- after 77 percent of people polled on its Web site said they supported the move.

"We've got them off the air for right now," said Jeff Garrison, program director at KILT, which is owned by Viacom's Infinity Broadcasting Corp.

"People are shocked. They cannot believe Texas' own have attacked the state and the president," Garrison said.

Cripes, the Chicks' lead singer merely said that she was ashamed to share the same state with Bush (hell, I'm ashamed to share the same phylum). And what's this about attacking Texas? I'd call it more like an (ineffectual, doomed) effort to defend the state's honor.

I don't have a lot of use for Tim Robbins, who seems to me entirely too full of his own virtue. I loathed the smarmy and self-congratulatory "Bob Roberts": a strawman is a contemptible tool whether it's put together with the left hand or the right. This being said, I nevertheless am not disposed to dismiss his philippic. We can discuss whether the opinions of "celebrities" ought to carry any more weight than yours or mine till the cows come home (they stay out real late in these parts), but the reality is that the opinions of a Tim Robbins or a Susan Sarandon are a thousand times likelier to be reported and disseminated than ours are, and a regime still awakening to the manifold possibilities of repression, still hampered by vestigial traditions and institutions of tolerance, will gratefully accept, with a nod and a wink, a bit of patriotic voluntarism from its friends in the private sector to squelch those louder voices. Robbins tells the story of a "famous rock and roller" who "called me last week to thank me for speaking out against the war only to go on to tell me that he could not speak himself because he fears repercussions from Clear Channel. 'They promote our concert appearances,' he said. 'They own most of the stations that play our music. I can't come out against this war.'"

What conclusions can we draw? It's possible, I suppose, that Robbins is making it up. It's possible that the "famous rock and roller" was speaking out of cocaine-induced paranoia, or that he has drawn false conclusions from the Dixie Chicks episode. And it's possible that his silence and fear is, from the junta's standpoint, an agreeable consequence of that episode--not because Karl Rove has had to send stern directives to entertainment executives warning them to rein in the talent, but because the climate of intimidation the regime has built (in which, note, it is once again deeply unpatriotic to diss the president, even though that was deemed practically a civic duty under Clinton), with greedy opportunists like Clear Channel jumping aboard, serves to stifle those voices by and large as effectively as would more formal sanctions. BePatient would tell us to relax, that until Robbins and Sarandon are clapped into extermination camps (actually, given the pedigree of the Bush White House, I think that death squads would be the more characteristic response) we have nothing to worry about. And here, indeed, is where the Third Reich analogies, which are occasionally thrown about a bit too casually, would not serve us nearly as well as would a comparison with the Soviet Union in its latter decades: the Stalinist terror behind them, the grey men of the Brezhnev years found that the judicious awarding and withholding of privileges served quite adequately to keep their country's entertainers singing from the approved hymnal.

This crew is still feeling its way. Give them--or, come to that, look the other way while they steal--a second term and you won't recognize this country in another five years.

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Re: I didn't say it was all OK
We can discuss whether the opinions of "celebrities" ought to carry any more weight than yours or mine till the cows come home (they stay out real late in these parts), but the reality is that the opinions of a Tim Robbins or a Susan Sarandon are a thousand times likelier to be reported and disseminated than ours are
There was a letter published in the Houston Chronicle a few weeks back. The guist of it was that this - "thousand times likelier to be reported and disseminated" - was exacty why the people had to boycott said artists. If nobody's making a fuss about the celebrities opinions, and those opinions are what's reported, then the government(since they hadn't heard anything to the contrary) would believe that those opinions were the same as the public.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New oh, for heaven's sake!
Listen to yourself...
If nobody's making a fuss about the celebrities opinions, and those opinions are what's reported, then the government(since they hadn't heard anything to the contrary) would believe that those opinions were the same as the public
You can't really believe that, can you? That the government--this government in particular--wouldn't have a clue about the public sentiments they spend every waking hour monitoring and manipulating if it weren't for Clear Channel selflessly jumping in to organize boycotts, helping the inarticulate Teeming Masses to find their collective voice?

I mean, I know that you cite an authoritative source--a letter to the editor of the Houston Chronicle, no less!--but really, this is too silly.

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Re: oh, for heaven's sake!
Clear Channel selflessly jumping in to organize boycotts
I never said CC was acting selflessly, I'd be shocked if they weren't. However, I've only seen & heard evidence that the public is driving the boycott - thus the motivation for CC is to keep their customers happy and thus maintain their source of income. It's exactly the same motivation that Tim Robbins and gang where trying to apply in pushing a boycott of P&G - keep the customers happy else lose money.

While he might have some valid issues, I have to take what Tom Robbins' is saying with a major grain of salt - saying things like it's NOT OK for one teacher to express an opinion, but that it should have been OK for another to do so as well as being upset over a boycott while he's pushed for other boycotts himself is a big part of why.

Give me evidence the governments' behind it and I'll reevaluate his position. Until then, I'll continue to see a hypocritical complainer.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Expand Edited by SpiceWare April 17, 2003, 05:51:17 PM EDT
New Gawd Forbid that someone might get away with a bit of
'hypocrisy' within a rather complex matter.. involving wheels-within-wheels of scurrilous, avaricious and sanctimonious twits -

In the World and Historical Capital of Hypocrisy !!
New While I can overlook the teacher stuff
I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone when they're complaining that others are doing to them what they've previously done to others.

Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New If that's all you've seen
However, I've only seen & heard evidence that the public is driving the boycott
Astonishing. With all of the widely reported (and ominous) trashing /burning/monster truck rollovers of their albums they are somehow still at number 2 on the country charts. Yep, the public has made itself clear.
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
New Even though I live in Texas
I don't listen to country.

I have read that the President has greater support in Texas than other states. I would expect the same was true of past Presidents and their home state. As such, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the response in Texas was different than other parts of the country.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New What?
I thought this subthread was about the corp inspired "boycott" of the Dixie Chicks. I bring up the fact that they have lost virtually no sales since the infamous "remark" and you say Bush is from Texas. Huh?
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
New Re: What?
As such, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the response in Texas(to the statement) was different than other parts of the country.
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New this is exactly what I was saying
that because Bush is from Texas, what I was seeing could be different than what you were seeing:

[link|http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/ae/music/jump/1902341|Dixie Chicks still ruffling feathers in Houston]
More than 8,500 votes were cast in the unscientific poll, with 56 percent voting against bringing the Chicks' music back. So for now, they remain banned from Houston's two leading country stations.
...
Around the nation, the Chicks are making it back onto country radio. Consultant Rusty Walker estimates that 75 of the 100 country stations he advises have begun playing their music again.

But Houston remains down on the Chicks, because there is a "more traditional country audience" in Houston and strong support for Texas politician Bush, Walker said.

The results of The Chronicle's survey(time of this post)
Is it time to put the Dixie Chicks back on the radio?

Yes, I really miss them: - 26%
No, I'll stop listening if they do: - 45%
Who cares, this whole thing has gotten old: - 25%
My radio gets bad reception: - 4%
Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
New {sigh} Do I hear an echo in the History dept. hallway?
What. Can. One. Say.

The crowd wills:
Give Us Barabbas !!

(cf. below re "The Screw" ;-)


So much pus to drain.. so much fucked base-Language; so many puppies..
(to drown?)

And circumscribing It All:
The Ed-ja-Kay'-shun President...
A Texas ..?..?.. Avatar for the Warshed in the Blood o' the Lamb er sheep.
A Crusade w/o The SPANISH?!


Ashton
Digital-logic: World of Duality in its essence! I believe I hear
Cosmic Guffaws, but see no Phoenix here, as would rise from the Ashes:
just a Super-Sized Dead Eagle, smoked on a McSesame bun
- with a side of People Fries.


PS - What's with:

Digital folk can decompile Every new adolescent slogan from The Beast of Redmond, dismember the sloppy code behind the insufferable crap-ware... yet not spot pre-pyres of burning books from the wisps of smoke, parse tawdry Language-murder or surveillance dbases UNTIL: one's nose lies bitten-off atop a shiny boot, IN FACT??

I. Don't. Get. It. (Unless these pernicious machines Really Are ___ ?!)


(but I digress)




transistorized mind-rot?
sent from the future by a pissed-off Geo Orwell??
The Lathe of Heaven - stealthily via Kurt Vonnegut???

or just maya runamok... Global Worming? (Oh Well..)
New not sure that is the factor
when thumbing one's nose at authority then whining about the temperature of your claret somehow does not resonate with the enquirer readership. Breast heaving complaints from an entertainer complaining about a theatre cancelling a show sounds callow and should have been saved for the schoolboard of the offending town he cited.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Carpe Dieu
New cf 'hypocrisy': it's in the Genes. Our mothers milk.
     Tim Robbins on CSPAN - (tuberculosis) - (31)
         ??? link doesnt mention Tim Robbins - (boxley) - (2)
             Bummer - it DID when I posted it. - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                 And yet.. still, in fact - Sinclair Lewis' work is deemed - (Ashton)
         Seems hypocritcal - (SpiceWare) - (23)
             full text of speech link enclosed - (boxley)
             It is... - (bepatient)
             The Public? - (Silverlock)
             Who? - (tuberculosis) - (19)
                 I didn't say it was all OK - (SpiceWare) - (18)
                     Vague definitions of "The Public" culminate in that - (Ashton) - (3)
                         I love the new telephone computer generated polls - (boxley)
                         Speaking of polls ... - (drewk)
                         doesn't change the hypocrisy in his stance. - (SpiceWare)
                     Re: I didn't say it was all OK - (rcareaga) - (13)
                         Re: I didn't say it was all OK - (SpiceWare) - (12)
                             oh, for heaven's sake! - (rcareaga) - (11)
                                 Re: oh, for heaven's sake! - (SpiceWare) - (7)
                                     Gawd Forbid that someone might get away with a bit of - (Ashton) - (1)
                                         While I can overlook the teacher stuff - (SpiceWare)
                                     If that's all you've seen - (Silverlock) - (4)
                                         Even though I live in Texas - (SpiceWare) - (3)
                                             What? - (Silverlock) - (2)
                                                 Re: What? - (SpiceWare)
                                                 this is exactly what I was saying - (SpiceWare)
                                 {sigh} Do I hear an echo in the History dept. hallway? - (Ashton) - (2)
                                     not sure that is the factor - (boxley) - (1)
                                         cf 'hypocrisy': it's in the Genes. Our mothers milk. -NT - (Ashton)
         Go where, exactly? - (marlowe)
         Instead of Bitching - (deSitter) - (2)
             Lordie, but Michael Moore... - (rcareaga) - (1)
                 ObDitto! -NT - (Another Scott)

It's only a few more levels till we're throwing lions to the lawyers in arena combat.
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