Portuguese minister explains their reasons

Post #87,792 by marlowe 3/12/03 6:35:40 PM Reply	Portuguese minister explains their reasons [link\|http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030310-081013-9767r\|It's all about security] Excerpt: LISBON, Portugal, March 10 (UPI) -- Portugal is siding with the United States on Iraq because Washington was "Portugal's best way to ensure national security," a Portuguese Cabinet minister said Monday. Foreign Minister Antonio Martins da Cruz told state radio that if Portugal were attacked, "it would be unlikely France and Germany would come to our rescue." No oil for TotalFinaElf! CHICKENHAWK! Scourge of clucking hens everywhere! Victory is the answer. There are no alternatives. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Post #87,940 by Brandioch 3/13/03 12:53:13 AM Reply	Portugal? [link\|http://www.iacenter.org/yugo_portu.htm\|Hmmmm.....] He said: "Let us suppose Portugal, proper or its archipelagos, faced a threat, who would come to our rescue? The European Commission, France, Germany? "I think it would be NATO who would come to our rescue, in other words, it would be the U.S., no one else would defend us. For instance, during the 1996 mission in Bosnia, operations took place with the support of 20 satellites, of which only one was European," and the remainder belonged to the U.S. Hmmmm, Portugal is a member of NATO, yet he has trouble distinguishing between NATO and the EU. "If Portugal was attacked, would the Chamber of Commerce in South Dakota come to our aid?" The EU is handling trade between nations and establishing a common currency. I don't see the US military handling currency issues.
Post #87,979 by boxley 3/13/03 8:46:34 AM Reply	I see Brandioch knows more about history and geopolitics and portugal than the portugese government, interesting. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #88,018 by Brandioch 3/13/03 10:44:49 AM Reply	Not necessarily the government. But, unless his remarks were incorrectly translated, I believe I have demonstrated his error. Once again, the EU is NOT a military organization but NATO is. The EU probably would NOT come to his defense if he was threatened militarily. But the member nations of NATO would, which would include France and Germany. Now, the EU probably WOULD come to his defense if some monopoly was trying to leverage itself into his markets. Hmmmm, I see that boxley needs more education on this matter. #1. NATO is NOT putting any sanctions on Microsoft. #2. The EU IS investigating sanctions against Microsoft.
Post #88,036 by boxley 3/13/03 11:43:45 AM Reply	the EU does not have its own military association? Consider yourself educated [link\|http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/world/2001/review_of_2001/1735223.stm\|http://news.bbc.co.u..._2001/1735223.stm] EU rapid responce forces and NATO will come to the aid of Portugal? Perhaps NATO coming to the aid of Turkey makes Portugal nervous. thanx, Bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #88,038 by pwhysall 3/13/03 11:46:22 AM Reply	EU RRF does not exist yet. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #88,040 by boxley 3/13/03 11:47:13 AM Reply	its that tense thing :0 will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #88,055 by Brandioch 3/13/03 12:38:34 PM Reply	Yes, it is. You seem to have a recurring problem with it. I would say "consider yourself educated", but all I can do is point out the errors you keep making and explain why they are errors. Only you can educate yourself.
Post #88,085 by boxley 3/13/03 1:55:23 PM Reply	my you are a snotty little piece of used kotex today [link\|http://www.eurocorps.org/site/index.php?language=en&content=basic_doc\|http://www.eurocorps...content=basic_doc] The "La Rochelle Report" is the founding act of the Eurocorps. This document defines the Eurocorps as a European multinational army corps that does not belong to the integrated military structure of the North Atlantic Alliance (NATO). It further describes more precisely the missions, subordination, employment possibilities, structure, and organisation of the Eurocorps, as well as a number of financial and legal aspects. Initially a French-German initiative, the Eurocorps was declared open for membership by other WEU-countries. serving its member nations since 1992. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #88,136 by Brandioch 3/13/03 5:00:48 PM Reply	Awwww, is it name calling time? From the links on the page you referenced. The Franco-German initiative quickly aroused the interest of other countries. This was particularly true for Belgium that wanted to integrate its forces into an army corps. It was looking for a way to demonstrate its willingness to contribute to the construction of a European defence and security identity, while at the same time preserving its role within NATO. Since the Eurocorps offered such a solution, Belgium joined on June 25th, 1993. The first Commanding General of the Eurocorps, Generalleutnant Helmut Willmann, assumed his appointment on October 1, 1993. The inaugural ceremony was held in Strasbourg on November 5, 1993 and was co-chaired by the defence ministers of the first three participating countries (France, Germany and Belgium). Spain joined the Eurocorps on July 1, 1994, becoming the fourth member. A symbolic moment for Eurocorps and European history was the participation of the Eurocorps in the French National Day military parade on 14th July 1994 when Eurocorps soldiers marched down the Champs Elys\ufffdes in the centre of Paris. One week later the Eurocorps paraded in Brussels for the Belgian National Day. Luxembourg joined the Eurocorps on May 7, 1996, as the fifth Member State. Hmmm, so individual nations in the EU are not members of the Eurocorps? That sounds strange. After all, you claim it is the military branch of the EU. Well, FIVE nations joined it. In the meantime important decisions had been taken on the European Security and Defence Policy. These decisions have affected the role and structure of the Eurocorps. On May 29, 1999, at the French-German Summit in Toulouse, it was proposed to place the Eurocorps at the disposal of the European Union for crisis response operations. Hold it. If the Eurocorps is the military branch of the EU (since 1992, so you claim), then WHY, in 1999, did there have to be a specific proposal to place the Eurocorps at the disposal of the EU? This was accepted by the other member states and formally announced at the European Union (EU) Summit in Cologne (3-4 June 1999). Okay, so this is from the EU nations. Around the same time, at a meeting in Luxembourg, Eurocorps member states decided to transform the Eurocorps into a Rapid Reaction Corps available to both the European Union and the Atlantic Alliance. And THIS is the Eurocorps nations. But, according to boxley, THEY ARE THE SAME NATIONS. But, according to that website, they are NOT the same nations. Boxley says they are the same nations. The website says they are NOT the same nations.
Post #88,058 by Brandioch 3/13/03 12:44:07 PM Reply	No it does not. Unless you count NATO. The INDIVIDUAL nations that comprise the EU are, mostly, members of NATO with their own armies and such. I don't believe that the EU will be able to field an "EU military" in the near future (less than 10 years out). It is a LOT more difficult to manage a combined force than it is to manage trade and currency. Rather, a military pact made up of the member nations with mutual defense would be fairly easy to manage. But that's mostly what NATO is.
Post #88,142 by boxley 3/13/03 5:45:54 PM Reply	so Eurocorps does not exist? [link\|http://www.eurocorps.org/site/index.php?language=en&content=home\|http://www.eurocorps...e=en&content=home] It isnt based in Europe and does not run under the command of the EU and no european nations belong to it. Okay if you say so. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]</br> "If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
Post #88,154 by Brandioch 3/13/03 7:10:53 PM Reply	Once again, nice try. But you failed. I did not say that Eurocorps did not exist. I said that the EU does not have a military branch. Eurocorps is NOT the military branch of the EU. If it WAS the military branch, then nations would NOT have to join Eurocorps SEPARATELY from joining the EU. Simply joining the EU would also mean you were in Eurocorps. Now, because I know you'll go off on these other tangents... #1. I also did NOT say that a country could NOT join the EU AND ALSO JOIN Eurocorps. #2. I also did NOT say that the EU could not USE Eurocorps for military missions.

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