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New Choice Editorial from Nick Kristof
[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/07/opinion/07KRIS.html|http://www.nytimes.c...inion/07KRIS.html]

Canadian MP - "Damn Americans - I hate those bastards."

Best quote:

As one savvy official observed, occupying Baghdad comes at an "unpardonable expense in terms of money, lives lost and ruined regional relationships." Another expert put it this way: "We should not march into Baghdad. . . . To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us, and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero . . . assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability."

Those comments may overemphasize the risks, but they are from top-notch analysts whose judgments I respect. The first comment was made by Colin Powell in a Foreign Affairs essay in 1992; the second is in "A World Transformed," a 1998 book by the first President Bush.

-drl
New Almost everyone Gets it
except the Fundamentalists and Dubya, Rove et al. Rove got Dubya into Governor's seat and Dubya will follow him anywhere. He is incapable of listening and evaluating at all IMnsHO. He wants to 'fix the world'. For God. (Revisit Woodward interview a few months back; on Charlie Rose)

This cabal is about to really fuck our reputation for decades. And too: wait for when there is a boycott of US bizness (all we really care about, anyway).
Travelling abroad as a Murican shall soon become.. rare, and for the martial-arts trained adventurer.

Oh well, best not to project too many weeks into This future.


Ashton
New I like the "drearily polite ... colourfully steamed" line.

OTOH, he's pointing out something very true. I'll elaborate:

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We are the people most like you in the world. We share so very much, probably more than any other two nations anywhere, from language, to political philosophy (checks and balances in political institutions are good), to trade and business, and even many wars (we don't want to go to Iraq, but we were right with you in Afghanistan and nobody here said boo about it). We participated in Gulf War I, and we provided the front line troops that settled the Suez Crisis and helped to kick off the massive decolonization that followed the Second World War.

\r\n\r\n

And we're telling you this is a mistake, a mistake of global proportions. The latest thinking here is that Canada is going to sit this one out... some excoriate him for it (the neo-cons at the National Post), some praise him for it (Toronto Star, at the other end), and some (The Globe and Mail) just wonder what the long term fallout is going to be, as everybody here is well aware that right now the US is keeping a ledger containing those who were "for us" or "against us"... and the simplistic metric being used is that if Canada isn't for you it's against you.

\r\n\r\n

The last time this happened was Vietnam. We decided to sit that one out too. At the time, a lot of the same things were said about us in the US, despite the fact that we had gone to Korea nine years previously.

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When we as a nation say you're making a mistake, it's probably a good idea not to dismiss it out of hand. The US is going to be heavily damaged by this war, no matter how it turns out... the only question is how much.

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BTW- it's interesting to note that the Canadian compromise proposal seems to have made it... that is, definite benchmarks and a timetable, in an attempt to get the two sides of the fence to get rid of the fence. Typically, the origin of the concept has largely been forgotten... and typically, it's going to get fucked up because the time alloted is too short for anything meaningful to actually happen; three weeks is enough to actually see and assess results, but it's the ninth today... how much is going to realistically happen in a week?

\r\n\r\n

The biggest long term negative consequence of all this is that it's looking more and more that "Old Europe" and Russia are going to get together and start cooperating more closely, because right now Russia looks less dangerous than the US. This is going to have major long term negative effects on North America.

--\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\r\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\r\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Re: I like the "drearily polite ... colourfully steamed"
I want to know if Canada will welcome Americans who feel they can no longer live with such intrusive statism, and wish to immigrate...
-drl
New I have no idea
The only way to find out would be to try. However, you have to realise the rationale behind the draft dodgers issue... people opposed to the Vietnam War were not getting "Conscientous Objector" status when they were drafted, and that justified letting them in as refugees. You'd need something like that to get past it.

I should also tell you that you'd probably find Canada far more "statist" in certain ways than the US is. The culture here is far more "statist" and not nearly as individualistic as the US is either.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New bring cash canada sells entry to folks with cash 71k minimum
[link|http://www.immigrationvisa.org/canada_business_immigration.htm|http://www.immigrati...s_immigration.htm]
Furthermore, it is possible to finance a portion of the $400,000 investment so that the applicant can invest as little as C $110,000 (US $71,500) of his/her own funds (** See financing options section below).
bring me your tired and rich. :-)
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]</br>

"If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
     Choice Editorial from Nick Kristof - (deSitter) - (5)
         Almost everyone Gets it - (Ashton)
         I like the "drearily polite ... colourfully steamed" line. - (jake123) - (3)
             Re: I like the "drearily polite ... colourfully steamed" - (deSitter) - (2)
                 I have no idea - (jake123)
                 bring cash canada sells entry to folks with cash 71k minimum - (boxley)

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