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New Yassir Arofat and Tony Blair offered their condolences
... and criticized this TERRIBLE act of inhumanity.

Maybe all nations will cooperate in going after the people that have perpetrated this intolerable act of cowardice.
New While Palestinians dance in the streets
Yasser may condemn it, but nobody told those people he supposedly leads. Washington Post has a story about the massive celebrations that are occurring.
French Zombies are zapping me with lasers!
New That is one of my biggest fears.
That people would be happy about such loss of life.
Religious fanatics sometimes get me a tad upset when they think killing is a good thing.

That is the part of humanity I just can't understand.
New Not to mention atheist fanatics.
But enough about Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Jack Kevorkian.

Palestinians aren't trash because of their style of religion. They choose their style of religion because they're trash. The dark impulse comes first, the rationale second.

So let's have no scapegoating of our spiritual side. We need it now more than ever.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
New Fanatics in general. Good point.
Religion is a good thing. Crazed fanaticism is not a good thing.

Killing others is not a good thing, no matter what justification is used, imo.
New Unfortunately, the only way we can gain their respect . . .
. . now is by anhialation. In their eyes we are weak and impotent because we don't kill them. The kind of attack we have seen today will now be viewed as a popular sport. Unfortunately mass killing is probably the only option they will give us.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Really wish there was a way I could disagree with you
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
New So do I
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Hit `em so they can't get up.
Then whether they respect us or not becomes a moot point. If it's Bin Laden, we have to kill him, and the top echelon of his organization. If it's a country, we have to end its existence as a sovereign political entity. Revive colonialism if need be.

And we need to to it damn quick, while this recent attack in fresh in the world's collective mind. Otherwise, we'll look like the bully. It's stupid, but that's the way people think.

The question is, how?

The other question is, who?

Ans the most troubling question is, just how much better than they are we, if we resort to such violence?

What we really need to do is is obliterate the culture, the whole way of looking at the world, that first motivates and then rationalizes their violence against us. Make sure the kids don't grow up to be like their parents. Teach the adults shame, if at all possible. They won't like it, but to hell with what they like. I don't think we have to destroy Islam per se, but some sects will have to go. And it's not just the religious system. That's a manifestation of a deeper dysfunction. Just as Nazism sprang from Hegel and Nietzsche, the violent aspects of Islam come from an exaggerated sense of grievance and emotional underdevelopment, that are part of a tradition of dysfunction thousands of years old. The Middle Eastern mindset has got to go.

And to hell with multiculturalism. All ways of looking at the world are not created equal. Sometimes people are just wrong.

[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
New You guys are unbelievable
Imagine if the situation were reversed and Israel was attacked as in the past. We would be hearing all kinds of voices about restraint, etc. Israel has been saying this for years, but no the US has insisted don't respond, don't cause an escalation etc.
New It's amazing, isn't it?
However, I agree that Isreal should declare on Palestine; and the US should declare war on these terrorists. I would expect Australia to do the same if it happened to us.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Declaration of War
The United States should declare a State of War - enemy to be appointed later.

All Islamic countries should be told to sign on one side or the other - NO NEUTRALS. Any that don't sign with us within 5 days automatically become free fire zones, to be dealt with by any means we see fit, including nuclear weapons.

There is no way the United States can protect itself from enemies of this kind. Only the countries of origin stand a chance of doing that. Without their cooperation the only choice we have is to eliminate the enemies by any means available. The alternative is to have events like this on a weekly basis.

The enemy has defined itself as a culture, and has declared war on us. Eliminating that culture is the only choice we have. Yes, many innocents will be killed - better theirs than ours.

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New You are advocating the commission of war crimes
Are you really willing to kill hundres of thousands or even millions of innocent civilians? There is no doubt that the use of nuclear weapons on any popultaed area is a war crime by any definition. What gives you the right to kill so many innocent civilians?
New Mass destruction should be avoided . .
. . wherever possible, but it should be on the table. When you have terrorists who hide themselves within the innocent, it is the responsibility of the innocent to get them out of there - or suffer the consequences. Here we see the "innocents" deliberately and willingly colaborating with the terrorists and celebrating their actions.

Yes, innocents will be killed. Better theirs than ours, or are you volunteering? I don't think any of those in New York or Washington volunteered, or those that were on the airplanes volunteered.

What's to keep this from becoming a weekly event, when religeous fanatics are assured of paradise by engaging in these actions there will be no shortage of "martyrs". How many of our innocents do you propose we sacrifice?

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New The same number of innocents...
that the US tells Israel to sacrifice to suicide bombing etc.
New Good logic
For the sake of argument, I'll grant your premise that U.S. foreign policy has amounted to telling Israel to sacrifice people to suicide bombers. Are you now concluding that the U.S. is morally obligated to sacrifice the same number of our own citizens before we can take any action in our own defense?

Now, as for the premise ... Let's suppose the U.S. policy has been to explicitly tell Isreal to sacrifice its people to suicide bombers. Why would they listen to us? Could it be to keep receiving all the military and other financial aid we provide? Do you really think there are no strings attached? If you don't want Israel to feel bound by U.S. policy, all they have to do is stop taking the money.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
New Why not?
If the US believes that restraint is the right policy for others why not for itself.

Like it or not the US is the only superpower in the world. Even if the US gave Israel no money it still has alot of control and an important voice. Europe gives Israel no money, yet when they speak people here listen. The reason is simple. Israel is a small country and depends on trade etc. for survival.
New And Americans accuse Israel of using excessive force????????
New I do not think you will find that I have . .
. . expressed that opinion.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Maybe not...
but the US government certainly has.
New I seem to recall something about the "Crusades"....
Something about.. Christians... going and raping and pillaging.. Islamic countries.

Repeatedly.

Even sent kids over for it.

What we really need to do is is obliterate the culture, the whole way of looking at the world, that first motivates and then rationalizes their violence against us. Make sure the kids don't grow up to be like their parents. Teach the adults shame, if at all possible. They won't like it, but to hell with what they like. I don't think we have to destroy Islam per se

So, kidnap all the kids, raise them (somewhere), destroy their religion (which, you might also note, is also a derivative from the same root as Judaism and Christianity)

I think you might have a slight problem. Add to that that there are as many Muslims as Christians (assuming that's who you've got fighting for you....).

So essentially you're talking about, kidnapping all the kids in the housing development over from you, and shooting all the priests, pastors, and deacons.

Sure you don't want to reconsider, slightly?

The Middle Eastern mindset has got to go.

Funny. They say the same thing about you. Of course, I guess we can just nuke 'em, but that's getting back to merely playing by who's stick is bigger.

Addison
New Yabut.
"Add to that that there are as many Muslims as Christians..."

But the Christians have more nukes.

Mikem
who flew today, briefly.
New Everybody remembers the Crusades
But nobody remembers the muslim conquest of some of the best parts of the Roman Empire. Without its connection to the east, western Europe was left to wither under those same Franks, Lombards and Goths that later laid waste Palestine. With a little foresight those conquering califs might have left Spain, Sicily, North Africa, Egypt, Syria, (and why not, Palestine too) to the Romans and saved their descendents a lot of trouble... Were Mesopotamia, Persia, East Africa, North India, Central Asia, Indonesia not enough?

Giovanni
New Something I might want to reconsider slightly?
I've got a couple of inner city housing projects in mind that would be appropriate for such treatment.

No, I wouldn't kill the priests. I might mace them if they get in the way, but that's as far as it'll go. I'm forceful, but not gratuitously violent. The nuns, too. Some of them really have it coming.

But I don't think the issue will arise. Some groups who make the biggest deal about their religion are the least religious of all in actual practise. I don't think the local pastor will even know who most of the residents are. ("Well, bless my soul! I haven't seen you since the baptism. Yours, that is. Still kicking and screaming and drooling and spitting up, I see.")

And I'm in no hurry to bind the stump of any major religion. Just prune the more unhealthy branches. The ones that the vermin hide behind.

Or, we could just slip Antabuse into the water supply and see if that helps. After all, their *real* diety comes in a six pack.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
     Recap of known events as of 9:50 AM Central - (Silverlock) - (97)
         My first question is: - (jb4) - (13)
             Well..... - (jbrabeck)
             It's *always* an inside job - (drewk)
             Did the Pittsburgh plane hit anything? - (SpiceWare) - (10)
                 Uncomfirmed report that it was shot down. - (Silverlock) - (6)
                     F16 shadowed plane from LAX to Washington DC also? - (brettj) - (5)
                         Just heard on radio. 4 planes still unaccounted for 10:55 am -NT - (Silverlock)
                         Cross-country flights... - (admin) - (3)
                             No accident that they were Cross-country flights - (brettj) - (2)
                                 Not according to a post below this - (drewk) - (1)
                                     Palestinians celebrating in the streets - (bluke)
                 I'd bet the pilots were dead long before any crashes -NT - (GBert) - (1)
                     The FAA received communications after one hijacking - (brettj)
                 It landed in a forested area - (brettj)
         not a good day - (cwbrenn) - (29)
             Was thinking same thing in reverse: I know who planned this! - (CRConrad) - (28)
                 Just think of Clancy as a white hat hacker. - (marlowe) - (25)
                     Level of security - (jbrabeck) - (24)
                         Some things we could do. - (marlowe) - (23)
                             You haven't been reading comp.risks. - (static) - (3)
                                 Never mind how vast it is. - (marlowe) - (2)
                                     Price tag = very high. - (static) - (1)
                                         Or alternately, do it or your liability insurance premiums.. - (marlowe)
                             sleep gas into the cabin - (boxley) - (2)
                                 Now there's an avenue to explore. - (marlowe) - (1)
                                     cheap low tech solution think stagecoach and shotgun -NT - (boxley)
                             Some concerns - (Steven A S)
                             Some different things which could be done. - (Another Scott) - (14)
                                 Reaction - (jbrabeck) - (7)
                                     Carry-ons - (admin) - (5)
                                         Guess you're right - (jbrabeck) - (2)
                                             Kidding aside... - (admin) - (1)
                                                 That's the point: put the kiddens aside -NT - (drewk)
                                         Make 'em check 'em. - (addison) - (1)
                                             Sounds like a great idea - (jbrabeck)
                                     Instead of locked cockpit door - (Steven A S)
                                 Would be simpler... - (addison) - (5)
                                     Not as effective, IMO. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                         What if cockpit door lock was controlled from ground? - (drewk) - (1)
                                             More complexity; pilot is master of the plane. - (Another Scott)
                                         More, really. - (addison) - (1)
                                             More simple - (wharris2)
                 Debt of Honor. - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                     Thanks for correction... Couldn't remember which TC book! -NT - (jbrabeck)
         Crash at Camp David also - (brettj) - (16)
             Well, that pretty much pins it: Islamics or Israelis -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (8)
                 Could also be Bin Laden -NT - (Silverlock) - (5)
                     That would fall firmly under Islamics. - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                         Yer right, I'm not thinking clearly today. Very upset. -NT - (Silverlock)
                         Bin Laden announced unprecedented attack 3 weeks ago - (admin)
                     Why not the Columbians? - (jbrabeck) - (1)
                         Columbians never heard of Camp David. -NT - (Andrew Grygus)
                 Didn't we get a member of one of the drug cartels in just - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                     Drug cartels don't do suicide attacks . . - (Andrew Grygus)
             Source? Haven't heard anything - (wharris2) - (4)
                 CBS or CNN, I think. - (brettj) - (3)
                     Got four planes and a car bomb right now - (wharris2) - (2)
                         Car bomb was a false alert. - (admin)
                         My wife just left our house - (drewk)
             Who reported this? - (jbrabeck)
             Pennsylvania plane - (wharris2)
         Yassir Arofat and Tony Blair offered their condolences - (brettj) - (23)
             While Palestinians dance in the streets - (wharris2) - (22)
                 That is one of my biggest fears. - (brettj) - (2)
                     Not to mention atheist fanatics. - (marlowe) - (1)
                         Fanatics in general. Good point. - (brettj)
                 Unfortunately, the only way we can gain their respect . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (18)
                     Really wish there was a way I could disagree with you -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                         So do I -NT - (Andrew Grygus)
                     Hit `em so they can't get up. - (marlowe) - (15)
                         You guys are unbelievable - (bluke) - (1)
                             It's amazing, isn't it? - (static)
                         Declaration of War - (Andrew Grygus) - (8)
                             You are advocating the commission of war crimes - (bluke) - (4)
                                 Mass destruction should be avoided . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                                     The same number of innocents... - (bluke) - (2)
                                         Good logic - (drewk) - (1)
                                             Why not? - (bluke)
                             And Americans accuse Israel of using excessive force???????? -NT - (bluke) - (2)
                                 I do not think you will find that I have . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                     Maybe not... - (bluke)
                         I seem to recall something about the "Crusades".... - (addison) - (3)
                             Yabut. - (mmoffitt)
                             Everybody remembers the Crusades - (GBert)
                             Something I might want to reconsider slightly? - (marlowe)
         Bin Laden - (admin) - (7)
             Report on NPR... - (inthane-chan) - (6)
                 CNN says bin Laadan denied responsibility - (jake123) - (3)
                     Anyone with any sense would deny it - (wharris2)
                     Oh yeah, and he'll be believed. - (admin)
                     bin Laden or Taliban denies? - (mmoffitt)
                 Probably a dozen unknown groups will claim responsibility. - (Andrew Grygus)
                 Re: Report on NPR... - (addison)
         Tower collapses - (wharris2)
         Perspective: 25-50K workers at WTC - (kmself) - (1)
             Count Vietnamese deaths in Vietnam to get a true comparison - (jake123)
         Re: Recap of known events as of 9:50 AM Central - (Arkadiy)

Indigenous life must be in agreement.
245 ms