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New I think I am beginning to understand LOTR the movie
After seeing the second installment and thinking on it for a while, I am beginning to understand why they did what they did with the plot.

This was a low-budget movie. The quality of special effects and a stunning landscapes of New Zealand should not fool you - it was. Given that, I think I understand why they modified the plot. They did it because their actors could not play. The ones who could would have been to expensive.

It's much easier to smear white filth all over King Theoden face and to have Saruman's voice-over argue with Gandalf than to have an actor who can actually act out the revival of Theoden. It's easier to show how nasty Faramir is by dragging Frod and Sam to Osgiliath than to have an actor who can show the real Faramir's subtle character. Almost all fuckups in plot can be explained that way.
--

We have only 2 things to worry about: That
things will never get back to normal, and that they already have.
New Yes, but not so much budget as screen time.
I'm not an authority on this by any means--this is just a theory. But it seems to me that the director got fixated on plot. This is what a good director should do if they want to tell a story *and* make money. I don't think he hacked the plot in order to save money on actors. I think he decided that _no_ actor could adequately portray the depth of Theoden (a secondary character) and Faramir (also a secondary character) in the sum-total of five minutes screen time alloted to them. Doing so would haven taken more film, which would have detracted from the primary characters and plot. In other words, plot* drove character which drove the "look" which drove the budget, not the other way around.

But that's just a theory.


* by "plot" here I mean specifically the drive among big-screen directors to keep the story simple and focus on primary characters. This is such a truism in Hollywood (and imitators of Hollywood) that it's often not discussed, and so is overlooked by people outside that subculture.

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
New Pardon my optimism,
but I think that a really good actor could act it right. Faramir and Theoden do have around 20 minutes each. Also, how do you explain hacking-up of Aragorn-Arven line?

It's not that I disagree with your diagonsis, it simply makes my regrets deeper. The hunt for T&A (or, in the case of Aragorn, H&N *)replaced the need for good acting so long ago, it's in the blood.

* Hair and Nose
--

We have only 2 things to worry about: That
things will never get back to normal, and that they already have.
New Only problem I have with that analysis is:
Viggo is quite a good actor, IMO, despite the hair and nose. :)

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
New And so is David Wenham.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New Re: I think I am beginning to understand LOTR the movie
I think you're right and you're wrong. Yes, they've severely cut what they could have shot, but IMO they've largely cut what they did not need to shoot. If you wanted an exact retelling of the original you'd need at least another two movies-worth. Given that movies are now shown - at least in the UK - without an intermission, the maximum length of a film is now determined by the bladder, not the director. Fortunately, TTT has an inbuilt bladder-break for those with a Clue.

Further, they may have chosen B-list (to Americans) actors, but to Brits and others outside the US, many actors are A-list (Sean Bean being a primary example for Brits). I will agree that Sean Bean would have been better cast as someone who survives all three films - perhaps as Aragorn himself.

Also, B-list actors they may be, but remember that all A-list actors were B-list at one time, and there have been some A-list performances, and I'll cite Gollum/Serkis and Boromir/Bean.

Yes there's a budget, but is that a bad thing? Do we really want to see the same old faces giving the same old (though excellent) performances? Or do we wat to let the movie companies make a profit and give up-and-coming actos and character actors an opportunity? Be fair: if they weren't good, they wouldn't have got the job in the first place.

With specific regards to Theoden, Sean Connery would have been perfect for the role, but he could not have been reduced to a cameo, and would have stolen the show anyway.
qts
New Re: I think I am beginning to understand LOTR the movie
I am in all likelihood never going to read the books or see the movies. Can someone tell me what all the excitement is about?
-drl
New What's the point then?
Good books. Good movies. Read/see them to be entertained. Or Not. Your decision. :-)
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: What's the point then?
No, no quite what I meant - I don't have time. I would rent the movie if someone could tell me what the whole thing was about in a general sense (e.g. Star Wars is a psycho-drama about "sins of the father" etc.)
-drl
New Rent the movie.
Watch it. Or not. Either you have 3 hours to watch a good fantasy film, or you do not have 3 hours. The story-line shouldn't matter in that decision.

By the way, rent the extended version if you can. It has an extra 30 minutes of material that would make the film easier to follow if you haven't read the books.

Incidentally, both films won Oscars, FWIW.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Expand Edited by admin March 26, 2003, 03:41:45 PM EST
New LOTR is considered by many as the best novel of 20th century
Explain why so many think so? Nah, your loss.
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
New Vox populi, vox dei
"LOTR is considered by many as the best novel of 20th century"

Take that, Proust! Take that, Joyce! And you over there, yeah, Nabokov, this is for you...!

I admit that it's been a l-o-o-o-ng time since I read Tolkien (35--no, closer to 36 years), but notwithstanding what I recall to have been intermittently diverting entertainment value, it's difficult not to think that anyone who would award LOTR the laurels just wasn't paying attention during the century under consideration.

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Might have to qualify that "best"...
...within the genre of Fantasy....

..or you are correct...the "ranker" just wasn't paying attention.

And I love the books...and have read them multiple times...but "Best of the Century"...nope, don't think so.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New best of genre perhaps but conrad, mailer(early stuff)
steinbeck, Solzhenitsyn and many others.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
New Only so much room in subject line
Sorry, I should have expanded in the message body. The best fantasy novel of the twentieth century.

Although I am sure there are some who consider it the best novel of any genre.
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
New Even within that genre
Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy eclipses LOTR on any number of levels - descriptive power, emotive content, characterisation, plot, etc.

LOTR is basically a meditation on language and God. There's precious little plot or characterisation there.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New So who's this Homer guy everybody talks about?
I am in all likelihood never going to read or see any of his stories or plays. Can someone tell me what all the excitement is about?


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New Its about the head of a family in Springfield America
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
New point==missed;
New joke!=gotten the blind poet is the other guy
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
New Naw, was talking about you... Got the joke. :)
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wise cannot see all ends." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring.
New So who's this Shakespeare guy everybody talks about?
I am in all likelihood never going to read or see any of his plays. Can someone tell me what all the excitement is about?


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New So who are these Dumas guys everybody talks about?
I am in all likelihood never going to read any of their books. Can someone tell me what all the excitement is about?


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New dumas is spelled dumass
if you are talking about the writer we were discussing 20th century folks.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
New Naah - for *you* (and Ross), it's spelled "dumb-bell".
     I think I am beginning to understand LOTR the movie - (Arkadiy) - (24)
         Yes, but not so much budget as screen time. - (tseliot) - (3)
             Pardon my optimism, - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                 Only problem I have with that analysis is: - (tseliot) - (1)
                     And so is David Wenham. -NT - (static)
         Re: I think I am beginning to understand LOTR the movie - (qstephens)
         Re: I think I am beginning to understand LOTR the movie - (deSitter) - (18)
             What's the point then? - (admin) - (2)
                 Re: What's the point then? - (deSitter) - (1)
                     Rent the movie. - (admin)
             LOTR is considered by many as the best novel of 20th century - (Silverlock) - (5)
                 Vox populi, vox dei - (rcareaga) - (4)
                     Might have to qualify that "best"... - (bepatient)
                     best of genre perhaps but conrad, mailer(early stuff) - (boxley)
                     Only so much room in subject line - (Silverlock) - (1)
                         Even within that genre - (pwhysall)
             So who's this Homer guy everybody talks about? - (CRConrad) - (4)
                 Its about the head of a family in Springfield America -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                     point==missed; -NT - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                         joke!=gotten the blind poet is the other guy -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                             Naw, was talking about you... Got the joke. :) -NT - (inthane-chan)
             So who's this Shakespeare guy everybody talks about? - (CRConrad)
             So who are these Dumas guys everybody talks about? - (CRConrad) - (2)
                 dumas is spelled dumass - (boxley) - (1)
                     Naah - for *you* (and Ross), it's spelled "dumb-bell". -NT - (CRConrad)

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