Post #79,509
2/5/03 12:44:56 PM
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Pointers point, references refer.
Lovely semantic argument we're having here.
A pointer is called a pointer because it points. That is, it contains the memory address of the data to which it refers. A reference is an atomic value that denotes a specific object, and can be used to get at that object.
Thus a pointer is a kind of reference. A derived class of "reference" with some rather dangerous functionality added.
A Java reference is another kind of reference. Call it a "mere reference" because it doesn't have pointer arithmetic capabilities.
A pointer can be used to implement a reference. But it's best to hide such an implementation detail behind a language abstraction.
Pointers are dangerous things. Very dangerous things. Very very dangerous things. Very very very dangerous things. Don't use them if you don't have to. Don't use them more than you have to. Be damned careful when you use them.
Sadly, we can't do without pointers, because sometimes you just absolutely need pointer arithmetic. But lordy, are they overused.
Mere references aren't so bad. Just be sure you check for null.
"Going to a march organized by Communists doesn't make you a Communist, any more than going to a march organized by Nazis makes you a Nazi." - Glenn Reynolds
CHICKENHAWK! Scourge of clucking hens everywhere!
Victory is the answer. There are no alternatives.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
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Post #79,517
2/5/03 12:54:52 PM
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Easy for you to say
Pointers are dangerous things. Very dangerous things. Very very dangerous things. Very very very dangerous things. Don't use them if you don't have to. Don't use them more than you have to. Be damned careful when you use them. And how do you go about not using pointers in C++? Trying to do C++ without pointers is like trying to write a SQL statement without a SELECT.
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Post #79,528
2/5/03 1:19:37 PM
2/5/03 1:20:13 PM
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this post left blank....
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #79,529
2/5/03 1:20:32 PM
2/5/03 1:21:00 PM
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This one too.... GAH!!!!
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #79,552
2/5/03 2:18:56 PM
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Yes, but I'll refer you to another post...
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=79528|http://z.iwethey.org...w?contentid=79528]
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #79,553
2/5/03 2:20:49 PM
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My point exactly
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #79,532
2/5/03 1:21:25 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #79531 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=79531|ICLRPD]
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberstrategy-draft.html|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #79,561
2/5/03 2:46:25 PM
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Why check for null?
Or rather, nil?
The behavior of references that don't reference anything in Java and C++ is idiotic and mother fucking annoying when you're trying to write a GUI. So the value is nil that I'm trying to put into the field - SO WHAT? The fucking GUI is going to throw an exception because it has nothing to display? FUCK YOU JAMES GOSLING - piker.
I now have to wrap every single call to swing with try{ /*call swing*/ } catch(Exception ex) { /* SO? *? }
Fucking morons. Its not an error - its an intermediate state.
Check for null [link|http://ventedspleen.weblogger.com/discuss/msgReader$9?mode=day|indeed].
I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.
--Alan Perlis
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Post #79,572
2/5/03 3:05:46 PM
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Have you looked at the IBM GUI lib for Java? (new thread)
Created as new thread #79571 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=79571|Have you looked at the IBM GUI lib for Java?]
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #79,613
2/5/03 5:06:36 PM
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Wow, that's one wide-ass blog site you got there, Todd!
What's up with the horizontal scrolling on the home page, mister Whitard?
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #79,632
2/5/03 5:32:53 PM
2/5/03 5:33:39 PM
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Dave Winer is Lame
Or at least his software is.
Try it now.
I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.
--Alan Perlis
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Post #80,053
2/7/03 6:30:39 AM
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Interesting rant.
You're right: Java's default handing of null is pretty stupid. Although they're not OO languages, PHP and Icon both handle null much more gracefully. Icon even has two special operators for quickly checking if a value is null or not - some graphics calls use &null and "" like boolean true and false as a result.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
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Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #80,700
2/10/03 5:28:33 PM
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Re: Why check for null?
The behavior of references that don't reference anything in Java and C++ is idiotic and mother fucking annoying when you're trying to write a GUI. Agreed. That's why you cannot have a reference that points/refers/whatever to NULL in C++. jb4
"They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink."
Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990
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Post #80,054
2/7/03 6:34:49 AM
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References can be very useful.
I used C++ references a few times one upon a time. I was not sold on the utility of them in the company of pointers. OTOH, I use references extensively in PHP: passing references to structures and objects is much faster than copying them.
However, both constructs require the programmer be vigilant. Global variables in PHP are implemented "behind the scenes" with references, for example, which the programmer has to be alert to to avoid some types of obscure bugs.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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