Re: Well, that's part of the problem.

Post #78,966 by rickmoen 2/3/03 2:08:40 PM Reply	Re: Well, that's part of the problem. inthane-chan wrote: I'm a n00b. Not just a Debian n00b - a Linux n00b. I have ZERO* idea what I'm doing.* Generally speaking, I advise people new to Linux to stay away from Debian -- and especially away from the default, plain-vanilla installers. However, [link\|http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html\|Knoppix] is an alternative and particularly painless way to install Debian (on x86 architecture only), and happens to include XFree86 v. 4.2.1. That is, Knoppix by default is a CD-ROM-based demo system. However, if you decide you wish to, you can run a script on it that installs it onto a 2.2 GB partition on your hard drive. I've archived a [link\|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/debian-knoppix\|set of instructions], and there are others to be found elsewhere, including one posted to this forum a while back. Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Post #78,967 by inthane-chan 2/3/03 2:15:32 PM Reply	Might look into that. Thing is, I've always learned best from Pain, and this seems like the best way to inflict Good Pain on myself... ;) Thanks for the pointer. If I can't torture this into working, I'll give the Knoppix thing a shot. "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
Post #78,973 by deSitter 2/3/03 3:02:28 PM Reply	Re: Might look into that. The driver is fine - the only error is that there is no screen (monitor parameters - res, depth, refresh rate) configuration that X can use. Download someone else's 128 XF86Config and put it in /etc/X11 (or /usr/X11R6/lib/X11 or wherever it goes in Doobian). What's your monitor? Seems like a lot of people have issues. You can try running the old script xf86config4. BTW you really want to upgrade to 4.2 anyway. Better RENDER support in xterm. -drl
Post #79,138 by pwhysall 2/4/03 7:33:08 AM Reply	No. The driver is fine - the only error is that there is no screen (monitor parameters - res, depth, refresh rate) configuration that X can use. Download someone else's 128 XF86Config and put it in /etc/X11 (or /usr/X11R6/lib/X11 or wherever it goes in Doobian). Wrong. The error "No Screens Found" is occurring because the driver cannot locate a suitable card, because it doesn't support Thane's model. A "screen" is a combination of resolution and colour depth. Which, if no suitable graphics device can be located, clearly cannot exist. If you knew anything at all about Debian (and because you don't, and clearly can't be bothered to find out, I'm apt [har har] to discard anything you say on the subject. This reply to your comment is for Thane's benefit, not yours), then you'd know that XF86Config-4 is the configuration file, and it's located in /etc/X11. What's your monitor? Irrelevant. Seems like a lot of people have issues. You can try running the old script xf86config4. Doesn't exist. BTW you really want to upgrade to 4.2 anyway. Better RENDER support in xterm. RENDER extension support did not change between 4.1 and 4.2. You're making up plausible-sounding sentences. Thane's big win in upgrading to 4.2 will be that the ati driver will actually support his card. Perhaps you should actually research the subject at hand before spouting. Bad advice (like yours) is much, much worse than no advice. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #79,139 by deSitter 2/4/03 8:29:39 AM Reply	Not worth responding to. RTFRN -drl
Post #79,146 by pwhysall 2/4/03 9:06:44 AM Reply	Heh. Easier than saying "I pulled a load of stuff out of my arse", I suppose. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #79,151 by deSitter 2/4/03 9:25:06 AM Reply	Now I'm pissed Read it your fucking self, white man. Have YOU ever calculated your own timings? Have YOU ever modified a FB console to work on obscure hardware? Have you? No? Shut the fuck up and stick to your janitorial duties. [link\|http://www.xfree.org/4.0.1/index.html\|http://www.xfree.org/4.0.1/index.html] Rage 128 - "Supported." He posted his startup info. It clearly states that the driver loaded, all the extensions loaded including GLX, but no valid "screens" were found so it quit. That means the combination of refresh rates and the DPMS info his monitor was sending to the card could not be matched up. -drl
Post #79,155 by pwhysall 2/4/03 9:30:20 AM Reply	Re: Now I'm pissed Read it your fucking self, white man. Ooh, ain't you the big man. Have YOU ever calculated your own timings? Have YOU ever modified a FB console to work on obscure hardware? Have you? No? Yes, and no. Shut the fuck up and stick to your janitorial duties. How's about you stop being wrong? [link\|http://www.xfree.org/4.0.1/index.html\|http://www.xfree.org/4.0.1/index.html] Rage 128 - "Supported." This is, of course the driver that doesn't detect or use the Rage 128 TF in this here GX240, but hey. Let's not let facts cloud our righteous anger. He posted his startup info. It clearly states that the driver loaded, all the extensions loaded including GLX, but no valid "screens" were found so it quit. That means the combination of refresh rates and the DPMS info his monitor was sending to the card could not be matched up. ...and it didn't detect his card. You're still wrong. Get over yourself. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #79,168 by admin 2/4/03 10:14:32 AM Reply	Pissed, maybe, but still wrong. He has a RADEON 9000. Not a RAGE 128. The driver initialized, then quite plainly informed everyone reading the trace (but you) that it couldn't. find. the. card. Read it again until this becomes plain (hint: it's the part that says "(EE) No devices detected."). Or do like I did and google for "radeon 9000 linux" and read a bit. Learn some. Be amazed at your Grand Unifying Lack of Cluefulness. Amazingly enough, after he installed 4.2.1 the driver found his card! Alack-a-day! NOW his spew says "(EE) Unable to find a valid framebuffer device. (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration." which is indicative of 1) possible kernel support needed (as Greg noted) and 2) a misconfiguration, in stark contrast to the previous error on 4.1. Amazing how that works. All your bluster about what you have and haven't done doesn't mean a thing when you're wrong. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #79,147 by rickmoen 2/4/03 9:11:50 AM 2/4/03 9:14:21 AM Reply	Re: Might look into that. inthane-chan wrote: Thing is, I've always learned best from Pain, and this seems like the best way to inflict Good Pain on myself... ;) I salute your spirit. If you wish to go forward directly from where you are now, you need to find XFree86 4.2.1 packages that will install directly onto debian-stable without causing too many additional problems. Using the "pinning" features of apt (see the relevant passage in [link\|http://linuxmafia.com/debian/tips\|my Debian tips file] for how), you could certainly pull down debian-testing packages onto debian-stable, but there's quite a leap in versions, there, for both the xserver-xfree86 package and for others it depends upon. So, you end up with a system that is, in effect, part debian-stable and part debian-testing. People do that under the mistaken impression that they're being conservative. The irony is that you'd be much less likely to encounter problems form a system that's 100% on debian-testing than from one that's part one, part the other. Alternatively, you could pull down XFree86 4.2.1 packages from an unofficial apt repository that compiles them for woody/3.0. That will in theory fix the debian-testing-dependencies problem mentioned above, at the cost of needing to rely on packages that aren't part of Debian, and thus aren't guaranteed to meet Debian's standards. As it happens, there is such a repository, and you'll find it listed among the Usual Suspects: [link\|http://apt-get.org/\|http://apt-get.org/]. Note that the exact line you'll need to add to /etc/apt/sources.list is given for each unofficial site. Then, do "apt-get update" to refresh the available-packages listings, and then whatever. (I guess, "apt-get install xserver-xfree86" and/or "apt-get dist-upgrade". You figure it out.) Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already. Edited by rickmoen Feb. 4, 2003, 09:14:21 AM EST Expand All History
Post #79,183 by inthane-chan 2/4/03 10:43:57 AM Reply	Thanks! I've already pinned myself halfway into test, and I'm seriously considering moving into it entirely - it might solve some issues that I'm having. :P "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
Post #79,192 by pwhysall 2/4/03 10:59:05 AM Reply	Dooo eeet Testing really is rather a nice place to be. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #78,982 by admin 2/3/03 3:57:05 PM Reply	Not so sure about that. Generally speaking, I advise people new to Linux to stay away from Debian Perhaps they should stay away from Debian installers... and then only if they are a dyed-in-the-wool Windows user. But once the distro is installed, it's easier to maintain than other distros... which is where, IME, more trouble occurs. From a personal standpoint, I would have rather dealt with Debian as a n00b. If you stick with Stable (or even Testing, for that matter), not much is going to bite you, and a lot of things that give newbies trouble (dependencies, library versions, fux0red config files from upgrading the wrong things, etc) just plain Go Away. Just my opinion, obviously. YMMV. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #79,154 by rickmoen 2/4/03 9:28:46 AM Reply	Re: Not so sure about that. Scott wrote: Perhaps they should stay away from Debian installers... and then only if they are a dyed-in-the-wool Windows user. That's basically what I was trying to say. Debian is a maintenance regime and an administrative framework, not a particular installer. Caveat: Some people are unnerved by the lack of central administrative tools in Debian. See notes about Libranet/Xandros, below. The following are all reasonable ways to get onto Debian: Libranet and Xandros Desktop OS installers. These give you easier access to popular non-redistributable proprietary "desktop" stuff (RealPlayer, Flash plugin, other things). Xandros gives you an all-X11 install (used to be Corel Linux OS), while Libranet is ncurses-based (character graphics). i386-only. Good automatic hardware detection, in both cases. Cutting-edge kernel and XFree86 support for new hardware, if you buy the boxed sets. (The Libranet image generally available on the Net is for an older version.) Both include GUI administrative tools of the sort that some users prefer. Progeny Graphical Installer image for Debian 3.0/woody. No non-redistributable proprietary "desktop" tchotchkes, but all X11-based. i386 and ia64-only. Good automatic hardware detection. Knoppix disk and its knx-install script. i386-only. Unsurpassed automatic hardware detection. Totally painless installation. Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Post #79,170 by admin 2/4/03 10:18:28 AM Reply	One thing I have always maintained: The best way to learn is to actually do it yourself. If Thane's intention is to learn Linux, then using the bf24 install and building the system one package at a time is the best way to do so. Getting a giant lump of preinstalled stuff (Debian or not) on a system is overwhelming, IMO. Of course, if he's really into serious pain, he could use the patented kmself chroot install like I did.[1] :-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..." [1] It wasn't THAT bad, actually... ;-)
Post #79,135 by Ashton 2/4/03 6:30:20 AM Reply	Gracias Along with the usual [link] suspects - a perfect complement to my Hot-off-the-Press Cee Dees from Our ~~Polygon~~Paragon of Virtchoo, Greg! Damn..! One by one, my procrastinations and excuses are dribbling a w a y Gawd.. it's coming I can f e e l it, apt-get Library of Congress ie Thanks. Ashton who wonders if he shall be given a choice of filesystem by K, and have to remember Not to pick ThatFunkyOne what saves stuff about like Windoze: ~ or partially.. :-\ufffd

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