Whoa Bessy.

Post #6,864 by mmoffitt 8/27/01 5:11:33 PM Reply	Whoa Bessy. >>on the other hand you completely cut off that same daughter because shee will not bend to your will. Bend to my will? Should I read that as "take my advice and not throw her life away"? If she's hell-bent to throw her life away, you seem to be telling me that I ought to let her. And personally pay for it. Thank you but, no. Anyone can make a mistake, but it takes real genius to fail to recognize the mistake and then intensify it with another along the same vein. >>You have restricted the choice to two extremes: ... have the child and cut almost all ties that she has with you. No, only financial ties. Oh, but I thought your position was that any child capable of reproduction was "almost by definition" prepared to be an adult. The logical extension of that argument is that "any child capable of reproduction is capable of self-sufficiency." I don't believe it, but you apparently do. And if my pregnant daughter also embraced that notion, well then so be it. Let's see if that position is valid. But, we already know what that would lead to, don't we? Which is why you decry my financial abandonment. See, you don't really think a teen-ager is "ready" to be an adult, do you? You know a teen-ager is not ready for self-sufficiency, let alone the responsibilities of parenthood. The facts are that children who have children are almost certain to be condemned to a life of poverty. And that shouldn't prevent us from stopping them? Nonsense.
Post #6,891 by Ashton 8/27/01 7:14:32 PM Reply	You're both kinda- right? The inevitable but.. And both obviously experienced and intelligent enough to see the mares nest - anytime a particular 'choice' comes down to exercising power of one over the other. Consensus is what all would wish - but that actually means.. that neither side gets All of the desired outcome, yet: finally agree that the compromise can be relatively free of festering resentment (no guarantees on that.. with time and next life experience). However phrased, to invoke parental authority over (a) choice, reinforced by withholding (something previously provided) - when translated into emotional terms, as ever is the case - is bartering. Bartering 'continuing love', say VS 'continuing obedience'. It Will be taken such, however much 'love', by parent is defined as, "saving you from serious life-mistakes". Meaning well.. is the prelude to most fiascos we know of. But as a matter of attitude, I guess I am of the school that all generalizations are false, including this one. Rigid application of any 'principle' produces the Authoritarian mindset and creates Repos and Righteous ones (always acting on some terrestrial or extra-t 'Authority', so as to pass the buck Higher, rationalizing their own ego-inspired Draconian actions). Maybe the most malignant aspect of this attitude is the 'Certainty' with which the power is wielded, overlayed upon the Authoritarian one: One Way to live else bzzzt Wrong. Kids of all ages through senility react to both A and C in similar ways, in my experience (of myself and others). Ego does not Like other Egos taking power! The Gandhis of the world are ever careful to express their direction.. as far away from ego/ego confrontation as their wisdom allows. We could do worse than to emulate the Masters, no? Ashton each case is unique\ufffd as is each person
Post #6,979 by mmoffitt 8/28/01 12:45:13 PM Reply	You're kinda right, too. The one truism in this country is one that has never made much sense to me: "It takes two people to start a pregnancy, but only one to continue it." We may argue the merits of the biological father having no input when it comes to determining whether an unwanted pregnancy is continued or not, but I cannot see how allowing 12-17 year-old little girls to be exclusively in charge of making that decision benefits anyone. Certainly there are anecdotal cases of "Brenda and Eddie" who successfully survived a mid to late-teen marriage and are quite happy. However, I believe the evidence is that most children born to children do not fair well. To say nothing of the extreme limitations placed upon the child-parent. The reality is that if my 15 year-old daughter was pregnant, if I tried to stop her from carrying the pregnancy to term, I'm pretty sure that some "right to lifer" would get me into legal trouble for trying to coerce my daughter into terminating the pregnancy. This is beyond my comprehension. I had my first daughter at age 31. I had no idea all that was involved, yet, I had a far better understanding than any 12-17 year-old kid would. Bringing another person into the world is a decision which cannot be made lightly. Allowing some one who is not yet self-sufficient (hence, completely unprepared to take on the total dependancy of a new child) to make that decision is in no one's best interest. bcnu, Mikem
Post #7,017 by Ashton 8/28/01 5:58:12 PM Reply	Silly CRs in title - at zIWE too ?? [mask! em] Yes, in the end - that's the stark er 'reality'. I'm addressing only the methods; no disagreement with the aims or the Fact that damn few under age [thirty ?] have the slightest inkling of the 18+year process they have initiated! (All have seen too many ads with smiling baby, mother having tea party and a Yuppie mansion as background. Not the running negative bank-balance, as both work to maintain a 2-room industrially-overpriced hangout, with sirens in the distance. And BBFH (bastard baby-sitters from..)) Still and all - direct Power-confrontation simply has to be the Last resort after all calm, restrained discussion has miserably failed, even after near-bribery and other wiles. That's all. Last-resorts create their own momentum which tends to create new, often petulant and irrational branches, to an already unfortunate morass :[ A.
Post #7,245 by mmoffitt 8/30/01 2:51:12 PM Reply	D'accord. I failed to make the case strongly enough that its my view that I will have failed if this ever happens to my daughters very early on. I understand your point re:ultimatums and am in agreement. It is difficult in this Murican post-intellectual period to counter all the corporate crap that innundates my kids, but I do my best. Hopefully, I can impart some wisdom upon them. Now is the time for me to do that, not after they've gone through puberty. bcnu, Mikem

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