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New What user innovation?
As you refer to "Outlaw bikers"[1], I suppose you mean bob jobs and choppers? Where the boat anchor is turned into an ill handling torture rack? They make for great eye candy, but are absolutely useless in any practical sense. Sounds more like Microsoft style innovation to me :) [And of course, H-D shamelessly stole their looks from Indian...]

There is actually a lot of true user innovation (as in where the performance of the bike is enhanced in a usable fashion) for the Japanese and Euro performance bikes. Most of the work is done by/for privateer race teams and is to a large extent available to the general public.

[1]A large section of the originals rode Triumphs and Nortons...
New hunter S, used a beemer
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

"Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane."
Lyndon LaRouche
New BSA, not BMW
I seem to recall that in his Hells Angels book he bought a BSA and subsequently wrecked it.
There's kinda sorta difference between the two. :)

Of course he could have bought a BMW later, but BSA is all that sticks in my mind.
New yer right bsa, knew it was BSomething :-)
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

"Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane."
Lyndon LaRouche
     Linux is Harley Davidson, Microsoft is Honda - (drewk) - (23)
         harleys are bloated and slow hondas are sleek and fast - (boxley)
         I don't like it either. - (Another Scott) - (21)
             Was talking about Honda motorcycle riders - (drewk) - (20)
                 Ok. But, one can still get Model T parts too... :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (19)
                     Sure, but try to get Edsel parts - (drewk) - (18)
                         We're getting away from your point, I think. - (Another Scott) - (17)
                             Who's doing the innovating? - (drewk) - (16)
                                 What user innovation? - (scoenye) - (3)
                                     hunter S, used a beemer -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                         BSA, not BMW - (hnick) - (1)
                                             yer right bsa, knew it was BSomething :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                 harley riders like to build there own, can you back that up? - (boxley) - (11)
                                     Like I said, more mature market - (drewk) - (10)
                                         Years ago I "owned" a harley - (boxley) - (6)
                                             Here in Los Angeles . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (5)
                                                 Re: Here in Los Angeles . . - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                     Oh, not too many . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                                                 Re: Here in Los Angeles . . - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                     You seem to have developed a bit of a stutter . . -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                         Worse - (deSitter)
                                         You're omitting the whole pre-Honda US market - (Ashton) - (2)
                                             Re your PS. I've seen Harley's that don't have chains... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                 Well, sorta - (drewk)

Oh, for the love of cheese.
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